Hassel, me wants it hard

I've been thinking about getting a Hasselblad kit, however I know very little about these Swedish legends. I'm hoping you could help me clear some things out. I have a lot of questions, as well as a few concerns.

Bodies
I value reliability, robust design, and battery-free mechanics.
I've been reading a little about the 500 serie. The 500CM seems like a good pick. Right down my alley!
The 501CM apparently uses the "GMS" system, I have no idea what it is, only that you see 100% of the image in the viewfinder. This weights a lot to me. I don't like cropping so I want to see what I get, no less and no more.

Then there's the 503CXi or CX or CW or whatever it's called. It's newer and incorporates lots of flash stuff. So why is it cheaper than the 501CM? I'm investing for the future. I don't use flashes now but maybe one day I will.

Lenses
The plan is to get 3 lenses, 40 or 50, 80, and 150.
C...Single coated Zeiss stuff. They're the cheaper kind, but how bad is the flare? Also, aren't repair parts for these getting scarse? Anything else I should be aware of?
CT lenses seem like a good pick, but they go for a lot more than the C lenses. Is the extra money spent worth it?
Then there are newer lenses with more letters in them. Should I worry about those at all?
Lastly a concern I hope someone could shred some light on. Some pictures I've seen taken with Hasselblads have really strange out of focus areas. It looks like it warps around the middle, or as if you roll the camera as you expose. What causes this effect?
Examples: Dead Link Removed 2 3 4 5

Handling & grips
I've heard they are not ergonomical and hard to get used to. On a tripod it's probably not as bad, but I do most stuff freehand and need mobility. If I do get a kit I will have to include a speed grip(and will use it 95% of the time), which brings me to another question. Why on god's green earth can't I find a picture of a 500-serie model with speed grip attached? I've seen pictures of the grip, but when I imagine it on the body two questions arise. Does it stick out like the sore thumb I visualized, and how do you forward the film? It does not appear to connect to the winding crank.

Backs
So it seems the "12" backs is for 120. What are the differences between A and non-A backs? Do all backs fit all bodies?

Quirk-factor
I've heard Hasselblad are sturdy cameras, but also that they have quirks. Mostly removing/attaching lenses and backs. Do anyone care to comment on this? Is it bad? I don't want to spend money on an unreliable camera, whatever name the brand is!

Hmm, that's all I can think of right now. Any thoughts and pointers are welcomed

-Ljus

Ljus, don't wish to be rude but the effect you are concerned about is called depth of field (DOF), dependent on aperture, focussing distance and focal length of the lens. If you don't recognise this, then do you really need to spend the sort of money that a Hasselblad outfit will cost? What equipment are you using currently?

Allan, I know what depth of field is. Don't get me wrong. What I mean is that some pictures look distorted.

The 80mm is not the best lens to use for portraits at close range ie:- less than 5/6ft. (Pic. 5 ). A better perspective would be achieved with the 150mm.

Ljusdahl said:

I've been thinking about getting a Hasselblad kit

Bodies
I've been reading a little about the 500 serie. The 500CM seems like a good pick.

Lenses
The plan is to get 3 lenses, 40 or 50, 80, and 150.
C...Single coated Zeiss stuff.

Backs
So it seems the "12" backs is for 120. What are the differences between A and non-A backs? Do all backs fit all bodies?

Quirk-factor
I've heard Hasselblad are sturdy cameras, but also that they have quirks. Mostly removing/attaching lenses and backs. Do anyone care to comment on this? Is it bad? I don't want to spend money on an unreliable camera, whatever name the brand is!

Click to expand...

I'd consider a 500C/M the starting point. Newer bodies add some features, but the /M has the really critical things, IMO.

Lenses. From what I hear, a 50, 80, 120 range might be ideal. The 120 is supposed to be REALLY sweet. You could get a 40, but then how could you justify an SWC?

The A backs are 'automatic' -- you line up the <--> line on the film backing paper with a spot on the back and the back takes care of everything else. No need to 'peek' into the back to see when to stop advancing. Go with A backs. They are plentiful and not that much more expensive. Do look for matching inserts, though. This means that the serial number on the insert matches that on the case. This is supposed to ensure better film flatness.

The Hasselblad is a little quirky, I guess.

• The C lenses are linked between the shutter speed and aperture, so you set by EV. Makes for fast changing of a shutter/f-stop combo, but slows bracketing.
• The lens and body must be cocked to remove the lens. They can get out of sync, making it impossible to mount the lens. It's an easy thing to fix if it happens, but can be a little nerveracking as it involves sticking a screwdriver into the body through the lens mount.
• The interlock between the body and back can be a little confusing and can get 'out of sync', but it's not hard to re-sync them.

There may be some other things, but that's what comes to mind.

They're great cameras, though. I love mine, though I've had it less than a year.

Ed

The effect is because the lens is projecting an image that is relatively spherical onto a flat plane (the film) - As I understand it, this distortion is corrected for the image in its it focused 'plane' but not so much for the out of focus areas - especially apparent on wide lenses for any given format...

I'm keen to learn more about it and I'm sure someone will correct me or add to what I have said in greater detail

Ljus, suffice to say the Hass. V system has served the profession for many years and will continue to do so. I have used the 'V' system for many years and have never encountered any of the problems removing lenses/backs which you mention. Just remember, if all else fails - consult the instruction book.

Carefully inspect a 503CX body before purchasing. I own one, I love it, but the rubbery anti-flare coating inside the mirror box eventually begins to deteriorate and must be replaced. I have a few cracks running through the coating on mine that I touched up with flat black model paint. When the body is due for a CLA, I will have the coating replaced. It requires a major disassembly. The coating is also on the gates at the back of the camera facing the darkslide. This may be why they are cheaper. My camera is approximately 15 years old and was perfect when I bought it 4 years ago, so it's an age-related thing.

Peter Gomena

Ljusdahl said:

I've been thinking about getting a Hasselblad kit, however I know very little about these Swedish legends. I'm hoping you could help me clear some things out. I have a lot of questions, as well as a few concerns.

Bodies
I value reliability, robust design, and battery-free mechanics.
I've been reading a little about the 500 serie. The 500CM seems like a good pick. Right down my alley!
The 501CM apparently uses the "GMS" system, I have no idea what it is, only that you see 100% of the image in the viewfinder. This weights a lot to me. I don't like cropping so I want to see what I get, no less and no more.

Click to expand...

Nope, the GMS prevents the viewfinder from blacking out in the top when you're using lenses longer than 120mm or extension tubes. It does not provide 100% finder, there will always be a few millimeters of the film that you can't see in the finder.

Ljusdahl said:

Then there's the 503CXi or CX or CW or whatever it's called. It's newer and incorporates lots of flash stuff. So why is it cheaper than the 501CM? I'm investing for the future. I don't use flashes now but maybe one day I will.

Click to expand...

The CW incorporates GMS whereas the CX/CXi doesn't. The CW and CXi are prepared to take a side mounted winder. I have yet to see a 503CW that are cheaper than a comparable 501CM. The TTL flash system is simple but effective once you've learned how it works.

Ljusdahl said:

Lenses
The plan is to get 3 lenses, 40 or 50, 80, and 150.
C...Single coated Zeiss stuff. They're the cheaper kind, but how bad is the flare? Also, aren't repair parts for these getting scarse? Anything else I should be aware of?
CT lenses seem like a good pick, but they go for a lot more than the C lenses. Is the extra money spent worth it?
Then there are newer lenses with more letters in them. Should I worry about those at all?

Click to expand...

Well, if you got the money I would definitely worry about them. The C/CT lenses were produced during the 60's and 70's and are getting old. Some repair parts are difficult to source but the shutters are simple and robust. The biggest annoyance is the interlock between the shutter speed ring and the aperture ring, it's a PITA when you need to change the exposure quickly or when wearing gloves. C-lenses are more flare prone then are CT and newer lenses but when used with a suitable hood, they can be very good performers. If you ask me, CF lenses are the best value for the money today. A different shutter than in the C/CT lenses that is still supported by the factory and better ergonomics. CFi and CFE are hilariously expensive.

Ljusdahl said:

Lastly a concern I hope someone could shred some light on. Some pictures I've seen taken with Hasselblads have really strange out of focus areas. It looks like it warps around the middle, or as if you roll the camera as you expose. What causes this effect?
Examples: Dead Link Removed 2 3 4 5

Click to expand...

Sorry, can't help you there. HBL lenses might not always be your best bet if you're a bokeh addict...

Ljusdahl said:

Handling & grips
I've heard they are not ergonomical and hard to get used to. On a tripod it's probably not as bad, but I do most stuff freehand and need mobility. If I do get a kit I will have to include a speed grip(and will use it 95% of the time), which brings me to another question. Why on god's green earth can't I find a picture of a 500-serie model with speed grip attached? I've seen pictures of the grip, but when I imagine it on the body two questions arise. Does it stick out like the sore thumb I visualized, and how do you forward the film? It does not appear to connect to the winding crank.

Click to expand...

Get a 503CX or CW and the winder, then there's no need to worry. The speed grip doesn't look very comfortable to me...

Ljusdahl said:

Backs
So it seems the "12" backs is for 120. What are the differences between A and non-A backs? Do all backs fit all bodies?

Quirk-factor
I've heard Hasselblad are sturdy cameras, but also that they have quirks. Mostly removing/attaching lenses and backs. Do anyone care to comment on this? Is it bad? I don't want to spend money on an unreliable camera, whatever name the brand is!

Hmm, that's all I can think of right now. Any thoughts and pointers are welcomed

-Ljus

Click to expand...

Go for A-backs, as pointed out before they're not that much more expensive but simpler to use. Just align the arrows on the film with the arrow on the magazine insert, insert the insert (sic) and wind until it stops. As long as you're careful and always wind the camera after taking a shot, there's no need to worry about any quirks or lens lock-ups. What you want to check before buying is the light seal on the magazines where you insert the darkslide, they deteriorate with time and need to be replaced. You can order the parts on the net and do it yourself or turn it over to a technician to do it for you. If you get light bleeding on the right side of your photos, that's where it comes from.

I don't know where you are located, but if you are seriously considering investing in a Hasselblad kit, rent one first if possible. In major metropolitan areas, any photo store renting equipment will have some Hassies, usually 500 C/M.

That's what I just did this weekend, and I'm playing with it right now. It is a great camera, but like every camera, it's not a silver bullet. It's a specialized tool, and there are plenty of photographic situations where it is not at its best.

A tool is never objectively adequate, it's always adequate relative to YOU and what you are doing with it. I must say that I'm impressed with the Hassy, but it's not what I would always use. I still love my 35mm Nikon kit, which helps me doing all sorts of other funny things.

About Handling:
There is a "correct" way of gripping and handling a Hasselblad. Put the camera in your left hand with the palm facing upwards. Put your index finger at the release buttom. Use your right hand for focusing etc and for extra support, in the same way that you support the lens on a 35mm style camera with your left hand. (It's all in the manual.) This works very well, especially when using the waist level finder. Once you get the hang of this, it's like holding a large egg in your hand.
In my opinion you can hold the camera just about as steady as almost any 35mm camera if you take care. Now, going to middle format from e.g. 35mm or digital usually means that you want larger and sharper negatives. In that case using a good tripod is the first thing to consider.
Quirks:
Yes, the Hasselblad is somewhat more complicated than most 35mm cameras. But given the possibility to change film magazines etc. it's actually very simple system. Just take it easy and slow until you've learned how to use the camera. It is built to be a professional camera, so it will take quite a lot of abuse before breaking down.
Finally, you can also find a lot of info on hasselbladinfo.com .

//Björn

The hand grip makes excellent ballast in the camera bag. If you do not like to carry unused items, do not buy one.

C lenses are getting hard to repair. One repair [plus the origninal purchase] and you have exceeded the cost of a CF lens. The CF lenses have less flare. CF lenses are the best buy for the money. You do not need the electronic connections of the newer lenses. The CF lenses use B-60 filters which can be found if you look around, the C lenses use B-50 filters which are hard to find.

GMS means "Gliding Mirror System". If allows you to see the top few millimeters of the image when you use a 150mm or longer lens. I have a 503 CX which does not have the GMS => this is not a big deal with the 150mm or the 250mm lenses.

I found the 40mm [equivalent to the 24mm on 35mm cameras] a bit wide and therefore not all that useful. Also the 40mm lenses is quite heavy. I brought then 50mm [equivalent to the 30mm on 35mm cameras] and I am quite happy with it. I will wait for a SWC and have a 38mm lens when I can afford it.

I have the 50mm, 80mm, 150mm and 250mm lenses which cover the range and space through the range quite nicely. Yes the 100mm lens is sharper than the 80mm lens and frankly the 100mm lens is the sharpest that they made. However it is too close to the 150mm and too far from the 50mm lens to cover the range well, YMMV.

Warning! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your wallet!

Steve

Do you have experience with repairing a C and having difficulty getting work done on it? I've not had any trouble getting my early lens repaired through David Odess. You compared the price of a C that has had a CLA being more expensive than a CF, I'm not sure that is apples to apples. On one hand you have a freshly serviced lens ready for years of service, on the other hand you have a used lens with a unknown history. Has the CF just been serviced or is it just about in need of a servicing, who knows.

Flare, the first 50mm CF is the same formula as the C and has the same T* coating, are you sure it would have less flare?

Not trying to argue, but I have used both C's and CF's I think there is a lot of passed on urban legend floating around about how poor the C's are compared to CF's.

If you want a CF because it is newer, or don't like the EV linkage that's fine. I find the EV cumbersome sometimes myself, wearing gloves in cold weather as an example.

Anyway, my two cents worth.

Mike

Sirius Glass said:

The hand grip makes excellent ballast in the camera bag. If you do not like to carry unused items, do not buy one.

Click to expand...

I think it's a matter of personal preference. What you say might be true for people who use WL finders. I prefer using a prism finder, and I much prefer using a speed grip when shooting a 6x6 hand held (my 6x6 was a Bronica though, not a Hassy).

The Hasselblad 500 series was conceived as a waist-level type of camera, and everything falls easily to hand when used this way (Looking down on the camera). When used with a prism and grip for eye-level work the ergonomics are not as good. You still have to drop the camera lower to look down on it to set aperture and shutter speeds.

You've gotta love photography. Nowhere else in nature where there's nothing like a good Hassel.

Thank you all for all the interesting answers!

I've done a lot of reading and thinking in the past week, and come to the conclusion that the Hasselblad is not the ideal camera for me.
In the end, it's all about getting the result you want for a price you can afford. I've decided that the best camera to fit my picture (harr harr) is the Bronica SQ-Ai. I already have an ETR so it's not a huge leap. Also I've been looking at a lot of photos taken with the P and PS lenses and to me it looks really good if not amazing.

So thank you for helping me make up my mind, I hope you didn't feel like you wasted your time on this.

-Ljusdahl

Hasselblad C Lens Price & Info Guide

http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/hassylens.htm

Dan

I have a 503CX w/ 80mm C lens. I find it to be very comfortable, especially with the waistlevel finder and also with the 45 degree finder and flash bracket.

I haven't noticed flare but I do shoot with a lens hood. My problem with the C lenses is that the shutters are probably sluggish if they haven't been serviced. Mine probably has never been serviced at all and the slower speeds are a bit slow.

It's not difficult to swap things around. The interlock might confuse you at first but once you get the hang of it, everything fits on perfectly.

I'd try one first before shelling out some cash. Or go through KEH where they have a good return policy. One useful accessory that I would purchase is the quick focus handle for the C lenses. Especially if you are using a flash bracket. Makes it very easy to focus quickly.

I always wanted an SQ-Ai. Good luck!

Ljusdahl said:

In the end, it's all about getting the result you want for a price you can afford.
-Ljusdahl

Click to expand...

Ain't it the truth!

Buying the most expensive will not guarantee the best images, nor does it buy the best camera. You made a good decision. Best of luck.