has the Japanese RB lens market declined?

Wayne · May 3, 2020

When I had no money a couple years ago it seemed there were mint RB lenses everywhere. Now that I can afford a new lens it seems like most of them have fog, fungus, scratches, separation, etc.

Am I imagining it or has the quality really declined? Unfortunately I just missed the two nice ones that came up in the US recently. There don't seem to be many of those.

moto-uno · May 3, 2020

This is pure speculation , but for years those cameras were strangely inexpensive for medium format. Within the last 2 years absolutely
everything medium format became gold . And people are holding on to them ( if they're any good ) . It really is crazy to have watched
this pricing . The bottom of the barrel is what's left , who knows how long this will go on for ? Peter

wyofilm · May 4, 2020

Cameras and lenses will become more and more expensive as long as film companies continue or until the average age of Photrio's members reaches 74 years and members start a massive sell off.

moto-uno · May 4, 2020

OMG , that means I only have half a decade left to take pics ? Peter

Alan Edward Klein · May 4, 2020

My RB lenses are still like mint. 50mm, 90mm, 180mm, 360mm. I wonder what they're worth now?

wyofilm · May 4, 2020

moto-uno said:
OMG , that means I only have half a decade left to take pics ? Peter

Ernst-Jan · May 4, 2020

Maybe people (and I think in the USA in special) pay to much attention to the mint part? Personally I don't care much about the mint part that much, technical condition/CLA would be worth more to me.

I bough a C330 last week, well, it worked, looked good and the owner showed some pictures he took 3 months ago with it. Nevertheless I will send any camera that I buy after some testing at home to a Mamiya technician*, to put new light seals, CLA, general inspection and then I am ready for years. So just buy a good looking lens, send it for an inspecition and enjoy it!

*for now I have a C330 and a M645 as "workhorses" so that is the logical choice, if I would have another brand, an other technician would be more logical.
The 135 SLR's I own are given/bought cheap, they work but I don't invest on any maintenance.

AndyH · May 4, 2020

moto-uno said:
This is pure speculation , but for years those cameras were strangely inexpensive for medium format. Within the last 2 years absolutely
everything medium format became gold . And people are holding on to them ( if they're any good ) . It really is crazy to have watched
this pricing . The bottom of the barrel is what's left , who knows how long this will go on for ? Peter

I've noticed this as well. Bronica and Kowa seem to be the last medium format systems where you can find glass that's both clean and affordable.

How long will it last? Beyond my lifetime, I'm afraid. The younger generation of enthusiasts seems to be part of the market driving this surge.

Andy

guangong · May 4, 2020

wyofilm said:
Cameras and lenses will become more and more expensive as long as film companies continue or until the average age of Photrio's members reaches 74 years and members start a massive sell off.

Does that mean that I am part of the photographing dead? Even worse, especially for my wallet, instead of selling off I occasionally still get a yearning to acquire something photographic that I really don’t need. GAS is a chronic, incurable state!

Dennis-B · May 4, 2020

I bought a used one in the early 1980's, and used it until the early 2000's. I shot hundreds of frames of print and transparencies, and had only one mishap with a jammed back. It was inexpensively repaired, and I made a ton of money from it. I only sold it when I disposed of my professional equipment. The lenses were tack sharp, and I frequently had to soften them for portraits using filters, and homemade "softeners". I also used it extensively for scenic and landscape photography.

A couple of years ago, I got the itch to go 6x7 again. However, this time I opted to go RZ67. The price of the RZ was just too good on which to pass.

The RB's and RZ's also had fairly short product lives, and Mamiya had the foresight to insure backward compatibility.

xya · May 4, 2020

there are 2 things to consider: obviously the climate in japan seems to produce more fungus in lenses than in other countries. on the other hand, most japanese sellers are more honest than some years ago. so they will tell you about the least sign of a possible fungus.

just be patient and look around daily. there are cheap offers, but they will be sold within minutes or hours. have a look at the "sold" listings on ebay. they do exist...

Wayne · May 8, 2020

I'm not so sure that people are more honest now. Most lenses are rated as EXC+++ (and even more pluses!!) until you read the fine print and find out not one of them deserves even a single "+", and any lens with fog,haze,scratches or separation is hardly an EXC at all, in my book. They may be functional, but with 30+ dollar return shipping it still seems quite risky.

BradS · May 8, 2020

I've observed the same thing...but with Nikons. Seems like just about everything I look at from just about all of the Japanese sellers is wildly over rated (EX+++ roughly translates to KEH UG). Most Japanese sellers use the same stupid template and are offering bodies and lenses with fungus and corrosion - two things that it is not really feasible to remedied (if you can even find an honest and reliable shop to do a CLA). I've reluctantly filtered out everything from Japan when searching as a buyer. Its odd because it used to not be this way all.

As for pricing of medium format gear (and darkroom equipment), it almost feels like a lot of gear got tossed in the trash (or improperly stored) five or ten years ago and now the demand has returned and prices for what remains are going up.

Kodachromeguy · May 8, 2020

There is plenty of exaggeration (or stupid) (or fraud) among U.S. sellers also. For example, here is:

Schneider-Kreuznach Super Angulon 75mm F/8 Lens Pronto-press Excellent++ Japan. Condition is Used. Shipped with USPS Priority Mail.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/352828780825

The entire rear part of the lens is missing and there is no Japanese component at all. But it is Excellent++.

ColdEye · May 8, 2020

Just look at the Bessa R line of cameras on ebay right now. The r is about $500 minimum now, and no one even sells the R2 versions. The R3 and R4 are Leica money already. My one regret is I never got to try the Zeiss Ikon RF, looks like a good camera.

RoboRepublic · May 8, 2020

I've noticed this on Mamiya 6 lenses- I've been trying to collect this system for two months now and all the Japanese sellers have typically have some fog, fungus, or fungal residue (post clean). Also the prices are higher than what you'd expect on other sites. Its been nuts finding domestic (US) sellers, and when you do, the items tend to go fast.

raizans said:
From what I saw on my last visit two years ago, the good stuff is being sold domestically.

Japan-based (but not Japanese) sellers are putting the dross up on eBay and generally trying to inflate prices (compare with what things really end up selling for):

https://analogtalk.podbean.com/e/th...as-with-bellamy-hunt-aka-japan-camera-hunter/

markjwyatt · May 8, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
My RB lenses are still like mint. 50mm, 90mm, 180mm, 360mm. I wonder what they're worth now?

A mint

Ko.Fe. · May 8, 2020

ColdEye said:
Just look at the Bessa R line of cameras on ebay right now. The r is about $500 minimum now, and no one even sells the R2 versions. The R3 and R4 are Leica money already. My one regret is I never got to try the Zeiss Ikon RF, looks like a good camera.

Check only SOLD prices.
Where are R2 for sale periodically.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=bessa+r2&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

Wayne · May 9, 2020

I'm OK with the prices for RB lenses, they've gone up in the last couple years but not that much. How can I complain about paying 100-150 bucks if the lens is clean? Problem is most aren't clean, and yes all of the Japanese sellers using the same template is super annoying too. How many plus signs can you put in front of EXC! EXC is EXC, and doesn't need any plus signs. EXC++++ means there's something very wrong. Or how about NEAR MINT with some dusts and fog

Randy Stewart · May 12, 2020

I'm not a Mamiya RB/RZ user, but I have noticed that over the last couple of years, YouTube has grown a "gang" of very simpler users who use and promote the Mamiyas, mostly hand held; The similarities are mid-20s, male, Sekonic incident meter, Porta 400, pushed one stop over exposure with normal processing. With B&W, 400 speed film pushed two stops. These are self-styled "influencers", probably contributing to an accelerated demand for these cameras.

Ernst-Jan · May 13, 2020

Randy Stewart said:
I'm not a Mamiya RB/RZ user, but I have noticed that over the last couple of years, YouTube has grown a "gang" of very simpler users who use and promote the Mamiyas, mostly hand held; The similarities are mid-20s, male, Sekonic incident meter, Porta 400, pushed one stop over exposure with normal processing. With B&W, 400 speed film pushed two stops. These are self-styled "influencers", probably contributing to an accelerated demand for these cameras.

Oh, yes they are all so original, shooting Portra 400@200.

Well I bought a Mamiya (M645) together with a Sekonic metre, and I am in my twenties too. But I bought it before I started checking out YT
And I prefer 400H

To be honest I have been thinking about starting on YT and also about buying a RB67.

GarageBoy · May 21, 2020

The fun thing I've noticed is everyone inflates the cost of the 110 2.8 because it's the fastest lens in the rz system - meanwhile the apo teles which were a small fortune new are so affordable

Helge · May 22, 2020

Randy Stewart said:
I'm not a Mamiya RB/RZ user, but I have noticed that over the last couple of years, YouTube has grown a "gang" of very simpler users who use and promote the Mamiyas, mostly hand held; The similarities are mid-20s, male, Sekonic incident meter, Porta 400, pushed one stop over exposure with normal processing. With B&W, 400 speed film pushed two stops. These are self-styled "influencers", probably contributing to an accelerated demand for these cameras.

And mostly they are just shooting a normal 80mm or so, full open.
They are making bad use out of great equipment, pricing it out of other more sensible people’s reach.
Really, these cameras mostly belong on tripods, hooked to multiple flashes in a studio.
They where never meant for dragging around all over town.
You need very good technique to not have the mirror flap degrade you images to the point where you might as well have used a 135 camera.
They would get better results and get more enjoyment out of a Nettar.

Helge · May 22, 2020

When https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law kicks in, you know it’s time to find new pastures, and let the old ones rest for a while, or forever.

Wayne · May 23, 2020

Well i finally jumped on a 180 C lens from Japan, now the fun of communication begins.

Me: I'm not home. please hold a week before shipping
him: no can do, ebay says must ship in 3 days
ok, go ahead and ship it
OK, I cancel and relist.
No, please ship it
OK, I undertand, I cancel
Please dont cancel
I understand, i contact you later.

etc, etc,,,,

has the Japanese RB lens market declined?

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