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I've followed both of the landlord's (rejected) development applications to Cheshire East Council as well as its appeal of the first one to the Planning Inspectorate. Have you?...I don't know either any specific details about this case or about UK land rules in general. But neither do you...
The thing that would really help Harman Technology and its parent company is for all of us to make them a successful company.Stock up on Ilford materials in around eight years. Unless other factors surface that warrant doing so sooner than that, which is shortly before HARMAN's site lease expires.
Today the Planning Inspectorate denied HARMAN's landlord's appeal:
Reading the linked decision document, it's apparent everything turned on aircraft noise. I get the sense that, except for noise, Cheshire East Council's rejection would have been overturned. Stock up on Ilford materials in around eight years. Unless other factors surface that warrant doing so sooner than that, which is shortly before HARMAN's site lease expires.
Yeap, there's no need for speculation or to be alarmist.Why the paranoid speculation?
Surely some other community in England would appreciate a new manufacturing facility.
This is absolute speculation. Unless you're an insider (and, if you are, you're probably violating a nondisclosure agreement), you have no way of knowing what the interests of HARMAN and Argonaught Holdings Ltd. will be when the lease expires.Before the lease expires, there will be negotiations between the land owners and Harman to extend the lease. Both parties have a mutual interest in continuing the lease agreement, so to suggest Harman will be out of a home in eight years is disingenuous at best.
Paranoid? Nine years before the lease ends? More like reasoned analysis.Why the paranoid speculation?
Alarmist? Nine years before the lease ends? More like thinking ahead.Yeap, there's no need for speculation or to be alarmist.
The proposed site redevelopment plan had Argonaught Holdings Ltd., HARMAN's landlord, shouldering the cost of new facility construction as well as physical relocation of HARMAN's equipment. I do speculate that it could afford to do that because profits from simultaneous residential unit sales would have subsidized those expenses. Other business estates, whether nearby or distant, have no such incentive should they seek to attract HARMAN at the end of its lease. HARMAN's relocation costs would also increase with every additional mile.If the redevelopment plan had gone through, Harman would have had to move equipment to the new facility. Much of the hassle and expense of the move would be related to disassembling, loading, unloading and reassembling the equipment. Once that is done, does it really matter much whether the equipment is moved to a nearby or distant destination. Harman has an long time to find a new home. Surely some other community in England would appreciate a new manufacturing facility.
That would be great as long as Harman doesn't require power or water for their business.given the distaste UK governments have had - over several decades - for anything to do with manufacturing industry,let alone that "subsidy" is considered a four-letter word ... I wonder if the Italian government would like to lend a hand?
I was a great admirer of the five executives who rescued HARMAN from Ilford's bankruptcy in 2005. They were long-time members of the photographic products industry and, while certainly in search (and deserving) of financial reward for their efforts, seemed to have a passion for their products that motivated them to strive mightily.Sal,
You are forgetting one small detail: this is an UK company, not a USA one.
We always have a Plan B.
Besides, do you think that a 140 year old company will cease to exist without doing some fighting?
Just buy and use their wonderful products. We'll see what happens later.
There's no concrete evidence of anything, just a conclusion based upon circumstances. Please don't dramatize my words by extrapolating them into "good guys vs. bad guys" phrasing. I neither wrote nor implied that Pemberstone is owned/run by "bad guys."What is the evidence that Pemberstone have a different motivation towards its film business than that of Harman executives? Can we really divide this into a "good guys v the bad guys" scenario?...
Who claimed that would "likely" be the result?...If the owner of the site will not be able to build houses there then presumably it will not pay for Ilford's development but why will this be likely to result in Ilford's demise...
Who claimed it could not? Neither I nor anyone without insider information know anything about the probability of HARMAN's site lease being renewed upon its expiration. Nor do we know what sensitized photographic product market conditions might be at that time or what lease renewal cost/terms might be offered by Argonaught....What is the evidence that Ilford cannot carry on as it is with its existing facilities and on that basis do we know of reasons why its lease should not be renewed by the site owner?...
With limited to no insight into the workings of UK government, I'll happily defer to your opinion that the matter might not be closed. I can find nothing on line to suggest that further appeal of the appeal is possible, but hope there's an avenue open to Argonaught which might enable the redevelopment plan to be implemented. "Right sizing" HARMAN's facilities at Argonaught's expense seems like the best possible scenario to support future Ilford product availability....The Inspector seems to base his rejection on noise pollution alone but given the desire of the government to establish "economic powerhouses" in the North of England with its concomitant need for air traffic and housing I have difficulty believing that this dismissal of the appeal by the Inspector is the end of the matter...
I can find nothing on line to suggest that further appeal of the appeal is possible, but hope there's an avenue open to Argonaught which might enable the redevelopment plan to be implemented.
Today the Planning Inspectorate denied HARMAN's landlord's appeal:
Reading the linked decision document, it's apparent everything turned on aircraft noise. I get the sense that, except for noise, Cheshire East Council's rejection would have been overturned. Stock up on Ilford materials in around eight years. Unless other factors surface that warrant doing so sooner than that, which is shortly before HARMAN's site lease expires.
The appeal was denied. The existing buildings will stay. In my opinion, and the opinion of the official who denied Argonaught's appeal, aircraft noise will likely only become worse in the future, making approval of any revised redevelopment plan that includes residential units unlikely.
It seems that if the application is denied the existing buildings will stay. If that is the case and Harmon is profitable, wouldn't they just as likely stay in business where they are? Are you speculating that the air noise will change and the owners application will be approved?
The appeal was denied. The existing buildings will stay. In my opinion, and the opinion of the official who denied Argonaught's appeal, aircraft noise will likely only become worse in the future, making approval of any revised redevelopment plan that includes residential units unlikely.
There are approximately nine years left on HARMAN's site lease. Unless the photographic sensitized products market changes for the worse between now and then, it seems reasonable to assume HARMAN will continue in business there. When the lease expires, depending on what options might have been negotiated in 2005, if any, as well as what Argonaught's other tenant options are at that time, HARMAN will undoubtedly balance its future facility costs against reasonably expected photographic product revenue going forward and decide how to proceed. I have no idea what the result of that trade study will be. Nor, in my opinion, does anyone else without insider information. It's complete uncertainty for those of us on the outside with respect to Ilford products after 2025.
Valid points.A few additional points.
* The previous owners of Ilford worked tirelessly to re-build the company into the success that it is today.
* When the time came to sell, the did so at a good price. The sale was not the result of a distressed company.
* The buyers of Ilford, having paid a good price, did due diligence and were aware of the leasing situation pre-purchase.
* The new owners of Ilford are fully aware of what their options are in any situation that arises in the near future and proceeded to make this purchase based on this information...
Ten years cannot be described as "short term" in the corporate world....I refuse to believe that the new owners of Ilford bought into this company on a short term basis...
"Keeping it going" for even ten years was quite an accomplishment by the five former owners of HARMAN. Pemberstone's continuing the business for yet another ten years, through the end of its site lease, would be an even greater accomplishment in my opinion. Should Ilford products remain in production after 2025, I'd be ecstatic. But, given our lack of factual information, I'll not count on it....Nor do I believe that the previous owners of Ilford would hand off their company who would not make every effort to keep it going.
That just doesnt add up, even in a corporate environment.
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