Harman Price Increases

Martin Reed · Jul 31, 2009

Harman are increasing prices again from 1'st September (at least in the UK); the increases vary across different products, but for the highest turnover lines are;

FP4 & HP5 120 film + 20%
FP4 & HP5 35mm cassetted film + 12%
FP4 HP5 sheet film + 20%
Multigrade RC (100 sheet boxes) + 15%
Multigrade FB (100 sheet boxes) + 10%
Chemicals + 10%

Ain't life fine & dandy?

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 31, 2009

I wonder if this is world wide? If it is I have already hit the pain threshold for the warmtone fiber paper and will have to stop using it.

It's understandable, though. Profit margin is essential for a healthy business. This will place the product well with those that are lucky enough to afford them, and it forces those on smaller budgets to other manufacturers. And, those users that have now reached the threshold of what they can afford, are probably not big enough customers to Harman anyway to make or break their sales figures. Part of life. Survival of the fittest.

Tom Kershaw · Jul 31, 2009

Martin,

1.Do you know what the situation is with Delta 100 sheet film and the Delta series in general?

2. Do you know how much Ilfobrom Galerie will increase in price?

Tom.

Andrew Moxom · Jul 31, 2009

Have materials increased that much in this economy, has inflation really increased that much?? I am not sure, but a 20% increase is HUGE.... I mean I doubt many of us would get a 20% increase in their disposable income or play money to purchase these materials with current salary restrictions in most companies. I know companies must stay in business, and make a profit, but this is quite a substantial bump and places this companies materials even further out of reach for me. Kudos for Ilford making silver products and continuing to evolve, but I cannot support them with the resources I have at my disposal.

Paul Sorensen · Jul 31, 2009

Yeah, this is pretty rough, however, unlike many or most items, the costs are not really related to inflation. If their demand has continued to drop, they are likely looking at having to spread their overhead costs over a smaller pool of purchases, so we may indeed be dealing with an economies of scale issue. I really don't know where demand has gone on these items over the last year or so and had the feeling that things were leveling off, but I am only guessing. If it turns out to happen here in the US as well, I might start thinking of making Acros my general 100 speed film, since it runs already about a buck a roll less and is really nice stuff.

Edit, I was being overly dramatic, currently it is 70 cents more for FP4+ and only 40 cents more for Delta 100.

Martin Reed · Jul 31, 2009

Tom Kershaw said:
Martin,

1.Do you know what the situation is with Delta 100 sheet film and the Delta series in general?

2. Do you know how much Ilfobrom Galerie will increase in price?

Tom.

Delta 35mm + 15%
Delta 120 + 25%
Delta 100 Sheet film + 20%

Galerie is the same as the FBMG papers, +10%

pentaxuser · Jul 31, 2009

I do not know how this can continue without seriously affecting demand and nor does Ilford I suspect and I cannot understand why such increases have to take place in the most serious recession since the 1930s. The U.K rate of inflation is now a minus figure! I have been expressing Andrew Moxom's sentiments for months about Ilford's price increases but even a pessimistic cynic like me didn't expect that the hikes would continue, unabated, it seems.

It will be interesting to see if these increases apply to the U.S. market. It makes me think that Ilford have abandoned any hope of increasing demand for analogue and in that situation of a static or diminishing customer base you eventually get to a near irreducible minimum of customers who treat analogue material as "distress purchases" i.e. purchases that must be made at almost any price. So a 20% increase in price results in say only a 5 % reduction in demand. Result: an increase in profit.

Eventually this strategy sows the seeds of its own destruction but if you foresee the "end" coming sometime in the medium term, say 5-10 years anyway then "making hay while the sun shines" is the logical strategy.

I said on another site a few weeks ago that I'd throw a street party if in the weeks ahead Ilford were to have announced that the price increase trend was about to come to a halt and that for the future customers could expect to go back to increases in line with inflation.

So no street party anytime soon

pentaxuser

Uncle Bill · Jul 31, 2009

Interesting a price increase is coming through at this point in the economic cycle. I am going to delay judgment until Simon Galley weighs in and I am going to keep an eye on local prices here in Canada. Most of my film consumption along with developers is done with Kodak but I do print on Ilford Paper and use Ilford stop and fix.

Barry S · Jul 31, 2009

Those are steep increases for any economy--let alone a weak one. At some point, this begins to push products into a death spiral with higher prices chasing fewer buyers. I seriously wonder if this will bring in much extra revenue considering sales lost to purchasing cutbacks and brand switching.

Andrew Moxom · Jul 31, 2009

Paul, I can get ACROS for $2.79 a roll, and $2.89 a roll for Neopan-400 from Calumet. That is a huge saving over current Ilford prices. If they are hiking up prices by 25% on Delta 100 in 120... That is not insignificant! Fuji already upped their price earlier this year, so who knows if they will do the same as Ilford has just over halfway through the year or not. Even if Fuji does hike it by 25% (which I doubt), it's still within my price range, and still cheaper than Ilford film currently is..... I did some quick math. I roughly expose 300 rolls of film per year. For ACROS I would spend $837 per year. For Delta at $3.75 per roll, 300 rolls would be $1125 per year. Now factor in a 25% increase and that goes to $1406.25 per year... OUCH!

I just don't get it Ilford.....

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2009

This size of rise so soon after the last will mean that even die-hard Ilford users will now think twice before ordering.

It will also tip the balance if the rises are global, some Ilford materials are already difficult to find in parts of the world and not every importer/distributor carries every line (or may have minimum orders).

The huge danger will be that Ilford will simply price themselves out of the market, and that also goes for some of their competitors too, people will simply switch to a higher proportion of Digital output, and then switch entirely.

An additional problem is that the very people Ilford needs to help enthuse and motivate new potential film/pare users will turn away, starting a vicious spiral.

Price rises in line with or even slightly above inflation are one thing but these are excessive and punitive to dedicated film & darkroom users, all my personal work is and always has been Analog but I will now have to think seriously about whether I should be changing my work-flow.

Ian

Paul Sorensen · Jul 31, 2009

Andrew Moxom said:
Paul, I can get ACROS for $2.79 a roll, and $2.89 a roll for Neopan-400 from Calumet.

I will have to check Calumet, I was looking at B&H. They are at $2.99.

I can see not price shopping when it is comparing Ilford to Arista EDU or something else with curly base and sketchy quality control, but comparing Ilford to Fuji, the Fuji product measures up very nicely.

Edit: I see that calumet is somewhat higher than B&H on Ilford, so if you shop there, there is already a $1.30 difference between FP4+ and Acros. Ouch!

eclarke · Jul 31, 2009

Made me buy, my whole existence revlolves around the warmtone FB paper. I just ordered 3 boxes 11x14 and 1 box 16x20, makes me want to barf...EC

Andrew Moxom · Jul 31, 2009

Paul, my point exactly, and that difference is with CURRENT prices..... Now factor in the 25% increase... and Delta 100 in 120 is now $4.68 per roll. Hmm 2 rolls of ACROS @ $5.58 or 1 roll of Delta @ $4.68.... I know where I am spending my dough.

I just don't get the justification at all, but it is what it is. I wonder if these price hikes are what is funding the new lith paper being developed from Ilford??

Trevor Crone · Jul 31, 2009

I'm a big fan of Ilford products but will seriously have to look elsewhere for sheet film and paper. I will simply have to consider printing on smaller sized paper in an attempt to save money.

Solarize · Jul 31, 2009

This is such a sharp increase! I suspect that the hobbyist will start to change suppliers and reluctantly curb usage, and for the professional, find a switch to digital all the more neccesary.
For limited personal work this is tough, but with the volumes required for professional usage, coupled with the ever increasing lab costs for film services, the analogue workflow is becoming increasingly difficult to justify inspite of it's obvious benefits.

WTFB is my paper of choice, but for commercial work at least, this is the last increase I will accept before considering the alternatives. As for the rise in film costs... I am going to stock up before September. After that, who knows?... 20%?!

The battle to encourage more darkroom/film users has just gotten a little bit harder. I do hope this has been thought through very carefully.

Gutted,
Ciaran

Kvistgaard · Jul 31, 2009

Any idea if Kentmere products will be affected too, given that brand is owned by Harman?

Martin Reed · Jul 31, 2009

Paul Sorensen said:
....I can see not price shopping when it is comparing Ilford to Arista EDU or something else with curly base and sketchy quality control....

Harman in effect sets the pace for the marketplace, producing consistently high quality products across a wide range of materials, and this may be the final necessary shift in levering the price platform to the level needed to remain in that position. Being the third increase in a calendar year, it seems to me that it's a longer term strategy rather than knee jerk reaction to short term marketing conditions.

Looking positively, it also allows competitive manufacturers to improve their margins, which will benefit distribution of alternative products. It's just that a discipline that was quite elite is just about to become eliter!

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2009

Well Martin, I've had the capability to do quite high quality scans my 5x4 negatives for 3 or 4 years now but in fact hadn't. Then in April I helped out an APUG member over Easter teaching him how to use LF (he bought his film from you), and realised he could use my scanner (rather than wait 2 weeks to use one at University) the results were impressive and I know now that I have no problem what so ever emulating my favourite analog papers if I need too, (I tried it 10+ years ago, but once done when back to how I like to work).

But the recession has meant monetary problems, (can't sell my property, and I no longer live there, but the bills don't stop), so some things have to give.

I know from long experience that I could switch to far cheaper films and once printed it's impossible to see or spot a difference, I've just moved back to Ilford films (November 2007) after 21 years and I really like them but I also know how to get superb results from Kodak, Fuji, Foma and Adox/EFKE so it may become a case of buying what ever's the best deal at the time which is notideal, but then I can at least be consistent for a few hundred sheets or rolls of film.

And then the prints, well if I took a Digital route, I know where to not be charged Champagne type prices for Inks/Pigments and also where to buy paper. It's VERY tempting, I have NO plans to go that route at the moment but it has to be borne in mind.

You're in the middle but it'll affect you too.

Ian

Rob Skeoch · Jul 31, 2009

I'm in Canada so my mileage will vary. Ilford has not mentioned any price changes to the retailers here. I haven't noticed any changes in Ilford or Kentmere in a while.
It is a drag for those that are affected though.

-Rob

Tom Kershaw · Jul 31, 2009

If Martin's supposition is correct and this is a price increase to establish a new level, at which point we won't see further 20% price increases each year, then I don't think the situation is as troublesome as it might be otherwise.

Tom

brian steinberger · Jul 31, 2009

I really wish Simon would weigh in and clarify all of this. I use Ilford's paper exclusively and couldn't imagine using anything else, but the FBWT is already at the most I'm willing to shell out for it.

Ian Grant · Jul 31, 2009

Tom Kershaw said:
If Martin's supposition is correct and this is a price increase to establish a new level, at which point we won't see further 20% price increases each year, then I don't think the situation is as troublesome as it might be otherwise.

Tom

That's what we were told last time by Ilford.

Ian

pentaxuser · Jul 31, 2009

Seems strange that Simon who values APUG and arranges tours etc has not said anything. Instead it has been left to Martin Reed to make the announcement. He must have known what kind of effect this announcement would have, surely. Of course if none of this affects the N. American market where I suspect the vast bulk of Ilford revenue comes from then why would he bother to say anything.

I think we in the U.K. now know how much we matter to Ilford's future, that is, not a great deal. If it does affect the N American market as well and to the same extent then I think it tells us a lot about what Ilford have concluded about the future of the analogue market.

Maybe we all need to learn to love the effect of printing B&W negs on RA4 which suggests Kodak C41 B&W films from what I hear.

All in all it's very chilling

pentaxuser

Jeff Bannow · Jul 31, 2009

I am going to wait for Simon Galley to chime in as well before declaring that the sky is falling ...

Harman Price Increases

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