Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

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pentaxuser

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What is the necessity that makes Harman want to eliminate the name of Ilford?

Thanks

pentaxuser
 

pentaxuser

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Ballinderry-Michael said:
Could be they've suddenly discovered that the thing they're announcing doesn't work.
Click to expand...

So they announced something without testing it? If that's the case can they be trusted with anything in the future and I wonder what has changed that makes them so reckless when in the past everything they announced seemed to work?

Perhaps your quote was made with to illustrate how we are heading down the road of ludicrousness or how far we have already travelled down it. In which case I apologise for not spotting the wry black humour, so just ignore my questions

pentaxuser
 

Ballinderry-Michael

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Duly ignored.
 

armadsen

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mshchem said:
I don't Instagram
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It's the @harmanphoto account reposting a post from @expiredfilmclub (an influencer and shop owner) which is a selfie with the caption "shooting something seriously exciting at @harmanphoto today".

The things I take from it are: it's a post on their social media account, albeit a repost of someone else, and they've apparently invited people (YouTubers, etc.) on site, presumably to see the new thing and make videos about it.

Expired Film Club

Looking at the world through a vintage lens.
expiredfilmclub.com
 

abruzzi

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armadsen said:
It's the @harmanphoto account reposting a post from @expiredfilmclub (an influencer and shop owner) which is a selfie with the caption "shooting something seriously exciting at @harmanphoto today".
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I don't have an instagram account so I can't see the post specifically, but "shooting something" implies it is a film (or maybe a rebranded Holga camera )--not paper, not chemicals, etc.
 

armadsen

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I took it to mean shooting a video for YouTube/Tiktok/Instagram, not necessarily shooting on/with whatever Harman's announcing. But you could be right.
 

4season

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If they are in fact timing it to coincide with the release of "Now and Then", we're going to have to wait a little bit longer, but meanwhile, here's the latest update from The Beatles.
 

retina_restoration

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abruzzi said:
I don't have an instagram account so I can't see the post specifically, but "shooting something" implies it is a film (or maybe a rebranded Holga camera )--not paper, not chemicals, etc.
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I expect that simply means that the account holder is the one "shooting something" (IE: content) for their Instagram feed. I doubt they are implying that they are using some new Harman technology to make their content.
 

Xylo

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After going around with high hopes, the only thing we haven't thought of is the change in the Ilford logo.
Not as something rising from the ashes, but just a phoenix in a round medallion next to Ilford in a new font.
 

Agulliver

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pentaxuser said:
What is the necessity that makes Harman want to eliminate the name of Ilford?

Thanks

pentaxuser
Click to expand...

We don't know. It's speculation. But, as Sherlock Holmes might say, when you've eliminated the impossible.....what is left, however improbable, must be the truth.

The facts as they stand appear to be:

1. Harman Technology has had the rights to use the Ilford name on traditional B&W photo film, chemicals and associated darkroom sundries since the original Ilford went Kaput in 2006
2. The "other" Ilford has the rights to use the Ilford name on certain other products including colour film
3. Harman Photo is a new branding exercise involving a whole new website, and social media accounts on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter/X.
4. Harman Photo uses a phoenix as it's logo and has sent phoenix postcards and some as yet undisclosed items to film dealers and influencers.
4. Harman Technology registered the trademark "Harman Phoenix" in August 2023 for use on sensitised photo materials such as unexposed film, and on chemicals.

The most obvious conclusion from this set of facts is that Harman wish to market something that they cannot use the Ilford name for.

There are two possible reasons.
1. Harman don't have the rights to use the Ilford name for the intended products, indicating possibly colour film.
2. Harman, for reasons unknown, wish or need to drop the Ilford name and rebrand current Ilford products as Harman.

It is worth noting both that Harman are not known to possess the equipment or know-how necessary to manufacture colour film and that they have been increasing the visibility of Harman branding on Ilford products in recent times.

I think we all acknowledge that it's a guess, but one possibility that fits all the facts is that they're rebranding everything away from Ilford and to Harman. And to some people that seems more likely than Harman suddenly acquiring everything they need to manufacture colour film.

What actually requires the creation of a whole new brand with associated trademarks, logos, website and social media accounts? It ain't a few rolls of 220 FP4.
 

Dustin McAmera

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If all this is about nothing more than a change in logo or branding, I shan't be impressed. In fact I'll have more admiration for the perpetrator of this as a hoax than that. After all, if it turned out to be a hoax, nobody was harmed and we all got to speculate wildly and tell stupid jokes for a week, which we like to do. If it's not a hoax, I expect to see a new product that makes me go 'wow'.
 

pentaxuser

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The bits I have deleted are ones that make sense to me but what doesn't make any sense if why it should want to rid itself of the name of Ilford. It has retained the Ilford name for its films and chemicals but has called itself Harman since 2005/6. Completely dropping the name Ilford which is what everyone uses despite it being Harman makes no sense to me

So what the heck has changed to make it want to drop the name Ilford that might make any business sense? No-one so far seems to have come anywhere near suggesting a reason why such drastic action is required or advantageous

None of the actions or lack of action so far by the originator of this Phoenix Rising and the phrase "coming soon" makes any sense to me and seemingly quite a few others

I looked at the Analogue Wonderland site tonight with reference to its postcard and mysterious box not to be opened until it gets told to open it or is that a date which it can't tell us? I don't know but it asked for its customers to respond with reasons about what was coming soon and all I could see was two responses.to me It would have been better if it has asked Photrio for responses

Neither do I think that we can conclude that the only conclusion left is that the "coming soon" reference is to what you have stated in your second last sentence

My conclusion is that the longer this "no further news" scenario continues is that what may remain is that we cannot rule out that the whole thing is an elaborate scam and not one perpetrated by Harman

pentaxuser


pentaxuser
 

Helge

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pentaxuser said:
What is the necessity that makes Harman want to eliminate the name of Ilford?

Thanks

pentaxuser
Click to expand...

Because it comes with limitations and potential hidden cost.
And they are the only company actually working on that brand.
The other “Ilford” is basically riding on the real Ilfords coattails.

However!

The IG story with the red bearded guy changes any speculation about the above.
It’s definitely colour film.
Again, Adox is attempting it and have done a run.
It’s more difficult to make colour film, I’d say two to three times as difficult as putting out a new B&W film.
But the potential earnings and sales might be able to outweigh that cost.
The market is very hungry for colour film and Kodak can’t keep up.

It’s not massively difficult to put out a simple 100 speed colour film when you have production capacity and coaters that might be adjustable to put out three layers instead of two for HP5 and Delta 400.

EK might even have helped out technology wise, since they are in a kind of similar condition with KA and could probably benefit from a collaboration one way or another.
 
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4season

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Agulliver said:
It is worth noting both that Harman are not known to possess the equipment or know-how necessary to manufacture colour film
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They might get by With A Little Help From Their Friends.

Per this video from three weeks ago @ 13:00, they've "invested multi millions into new production capabilities" for undisclosed product:
 

MattKing

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The fact that people here are constantly referring to "Ilford" when they are really talking about Harman Technology is as good a reason as any for Harman to attempt to establish more of a public identity under their actual name.
Particularly because it seems unlikely that Harman can or would want to use Ilford for products unrelated to black and white film or darkroom.
 

mshchem

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Maybe Ilford is buying Alaris so they can call their films Harman. Harman Ektar, Harman Ektachrome E 100.

I think Edsal is a good idea.
 

MCB18

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Would love this too, but sadly based on previous information (and CiniStill’s failed 220 attempt), I highly doubt it will ever happen.
 

Agulliver

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Helge said:
It’s not massively difficult to put out a simple 100 speed colour film when you have production capacity and coaters that might be adjustable to put out three layers instead of two for HP5 and Delta 400.
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It is. Very few companies ever perfected C41 film. Kodak, Fuji, Agfa, Sakura/Konica and perhaps Ferrania. That's five ****ing huge companies at the height of the film era able to invest zillions who were able to manufacture good C41 or E6 film.

It is a LOT more than three layers. Up-thread someone explained that it's 15 layers. And Harman do not possess any coating machinery capable of coating more than five layers.

Now, it's great that they are able to say they've invested millions in new production equipment. That's fantastic, whatever it turns out to be. But you can colour me seriously impressed if they've bought new machinery this year and already perfected colour film. Basically that's a feat never before achieved in the history of photography.

On the face of it, losing the historic Ilford name and going Harman would not make sense....but it's always possible they have no choice. They do not own the Ilford name outright. In fact, as I understand it, they have a limited license to use the Ilford name and trademark. It is possible that involves ongoing costs that have increased, it is even possible that the license is going to expire and they cannot agree terms to continue. This is, I must add, pure speculation but the question has been asked "Why would they rebrand"....and there are potentially reasons. We have seen the Harman branding get bigger on the film boxes. Maybe this has been some time coming.

Or maybe I am wrong and they've perfected colour film in record time. They are, after all, clever people and might have had help from FujiFilm or Eastman Kodak. The former might conceivably enter into some sort of cooperation with Harman to manufacture colour film, though there's no conceivable reason not to brand it "FujiFilm"....while the latter might reasonably feel that it will ultimately benefit them if Harman can roll out enough colour film (especially amateur C41) to take the pressure of EK.

The two conclusions it seems reasonable to consider are that this is the launch of a product or line of products they're not permitted to call "Ilford" under the terms of their license agreement.....or it's a necessary rebrand from Ilford to Harman.
 

Agulliver

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AW don't generate much in the way of comments on their website. They know that it's social media is where the conversation is. Then you head to the website for a bit more info.

All they're saying, like other dealers and influencers, is that they've been sent something by Harman that they are not yet permitted to tell us about....but which they claim is exciting. The one with the Beatles accompanying his image is the song "Do you want to know a secret? Do you promise not to tell?"

It's all designed to get people speculating. And, of course, that only pays off it the secret turns out to be sufficiently big to keep people excited when it is revealed.

Harman have gone to quite some considerable effort, and honestly the notion that this is a fake or hoax is conspiracy theory level. There's a digital "paper trail" leading right to the doors of head office at Mobberly.
 

koraks

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Helge said:
It’s not massively difficult to put out a simple 100 speed colour film when you have production capacity and coaters that might be adjustable to put out three layers instead of two for HP5 and Delta 400.
Click to expand...
Color film isn't "three layers". Also in other areas you're massively underestimating the challenges associated with going from B&W to color film manufacturing. It's not a matter of "oh let's feed some gunk through one or two more slits on our coater."
 
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