Hardening Fixer for Paper

[M Carter]

I've been experimenting with Foma liquid emulsion - but summer in Texas means my water is pretty warm, usually a good thing for washing prints. Having some trouble with emulsion softening. To the point I'm adding ice to my trays.

So I'm curious about hardening fixers - several products out there, but I'm wondering if there's just an additive that will work with my existing fixers. (And will this even help?)

I currently use Ilford Rapid for general work, and I also keep TF-5 and plain Hypo crystals handy. I prefer the TF5 for this work since it's canvas and I'm concerned about wash times. Is there a chemical that will work with my stock, or do I need to get a dedicated hardening product?

 

[MattKing]

You can use the hardener that is packaged with the Kodak Rapid Fixer separately from the fixer.

As I understand it, the Ilford Rapid Fixer cannot be used with added hardener, while the Ilford Hypam is designed to allow that option.

TF-5 was co-developed by Ron Mowrey (Photo Engineer here on APUG) so I would ask him.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Alum hardeners require a pH of about 4.5 to work. Thus they are not compatible with either TF-4 or TF-5 nor with any neutral to alkaline fixer.

For best results use a chrome alum hardening bath or a formaline prehardener with appropriate washes inserted in the process.

Remember that alum hardeners can be reversed and can leave a white precipitate in your images. The two above cannot.

Formulas for both posted ad nauseum here on APUG.

PE

 

[M Carter]

Thanks all - I'll keep playing with getting the water cooled down. It's amazing how warm it comes into the house this time of year, almost bath water - kind of nice for washing fiber prints though.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Can you afford a water chiller?

 

[M Carter]

I have somewhere a cooler I've used to pipe dry ice through for video shoots - coils of tubing, you dump a couple bags of ice in it.

One thing I've realized though, is in my darkroom (the upstairs kitchen of a duplex we've converted to one home) the cold water supply (pex tubing, 1930's house and the kitchen supply pipes were bad so I ran a temporary line) comes through the hot water heater closet which is warming it even worse. So for now I've moved my washing tests to the bathroom.

I'm getting emulsion lifting after 10 minutes of a gentle wash, and weird brown streaking that seems like developer trapped in the canvas? Or something?

The canvas was PVA sized on both sides, and then primed on one side with 2 coats of acrylic gesso, sanded lightly, and then a third light coat.

So, my next steps are:

Add more hardener to the emulsion (Foma supplies a hardener, but it's like 1/2 oz per one kilo, which is about a 30 oz jar - so for 5x7 tests, very hard to suss out how much hardener to add… like, 1 drop? 2?)

Prime both sides of the canvas?

Or add a polyurethane layer over the primer?

Keep the water temps down?

The Foma emulsion is just gorgeous out of the developer, deep silky blacks and great contrast. Pretty smitten with the stuff. My batch is almost 2 years old but was kept refrigerated and only opened this month (I get some big ideas and then get busy), no fogging in my tests though.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Brown streaks can be silver salt retention or hypo retention as well as developer retention. It can come from the subbing or slightly uneven coating which has not been fixed or washed properly.

Most digital papers show the same problem due to the mordants they contain.

PE

 

[MartinP]

Does pre-hardening help the final wash, when compared with a hardening fixer? I recall it being mentioned that hardened gelatine took much longer to wash, and with the elevated temperature necessary for the OP that might be tricky to accomplish without problems.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Pre hardening with formalin or to a lesser extent chrome alum will last for the lifetime of the print.

All things that prevent gelatin swelling or blistering or removal will increase wash times.

PE

 

[removed account4]

hi m carter

i use sprint fixer and hardener.
it is speed fixer, and alum hardener
and in liquid form / easy to mix. i've never used anything else
although i have thought of putting it in plain hypo, but never gotten around to it.
this is what i have done with liquid light ... i have some foma emulsion ..
and i haven't done this with home-brew emulsion yet either ... both are next stops on the magic bus

great to see others are using liquid emulsions !

good luck !
john

 

[M Carter]

My local camera store had some Kodak hardening fixer in stock so I grabbed some today… more tests ahead with subbing layers and primer types and so on.

I expect to get a solid workflow together… but then, I'm an optimist. I have learned to take very detailed notes and label my tests at least!

 

[Photo Engineer]

Why are you subbing. I have never subbed on canvas and get good, hard coatings.

PE

 

[M Carter]

Why are you subbing. I have never subbed on canvas and get good, hard coatings.

PE

Well, I want a pure white base vs. the canvas color so I need to prime the canvas; reading different manufacturers recommendations and some suggest gloss polyurethane over primer. Liquid light says gloss poly if the surface is primed with latex primer or gesso. I emailed Foma who say to use latex primer (though the guy's english was somewhat confusing - he also said epoxy paint would work). LL also recommends hardened gelatin over absorbent surfaces - but I don't consider dried gesso absorbent, really. LL instructions mention that water can soak through an acrylic primer. I've always assumed primers to be fairly watertight, but perhaps they are designed to "breathe" a little.

In fact, my canvas (which was sized with waterproof artist PVA on both sides, then primed with acrylic gesso and lightly sanded) had a heck of a lot of "tooth" to it. Seemed like it would have been very hard for something to peel right off of it, but after a few minutes wash, the emulsion lifted almost as a complete sheet. I'd imagine gloss poly would be much easier to lift… but then, is water coming through the primer? So I'm about to test gesso with gloss poly, oil primer, and oil primer with poly. And a long hardening fix bath.

I want to stick with the Foma though, it's really a beautiful emulsion and the web is full of people struggling to get LL to work (and the Foma comes in a big jar, a full kilo).

 

[Photo Engineer]

Well, when I wants white, I just get a baryta paper such as that available through Fotoimpex or maybe even the Formulary has some left. They might have sold out.

If I use canvas it is for the color and texture. You are going through hoops to remove or reduce what I (and some others) want, and that is the canvas look.

PE

 

[M Carter]

I still get plenty of texture with primed canvas, and when you get up to 11x14 or larger and stretch it, it has a look that's unlike paper or flat panels.

If you look at an oil painting, most often you can tell it's on canvas, even if it's been primed and has layers of color. (Plus I'm kind of interested in tinting with oil washes and varnishes which has an amazing watery depth… and maybe cracking/distressing).

I did a series of scanned images on giclee canvas where I overpainted with washes (oil colors and painter's mediums) and then gloss varnished and they really have an amazing richness and depth, building tints in layers is really kinda glorious - and are still clearly canvas, one is 30x36"… but for this project, I don't want any computers or scanners involved, 100% analog.