Hardening Fixer for Modern Films and washing?

Darko Kamer · Dec 19, 2021

Hello

After having fixer liquid concentrate go bad on the shelf its powdered fixers going forward.
Kodak Professional Fixer in a powder which contains a film hardener already mixer is the only powdered fixer available in my local camera store (and paying high shopping fees no longer appeals to me).

The B&W films (all Ilford) I shoot are already hardened so no need for hardener however ; i'm stuck with the hardener in the Kodak Professional Fixer powder.

With the previously used rapid fixer I have always performed the multiple tank rinses/ inversions washing method: so; fill tank invert 5 times soak, dump, fill tank invert 10 times soak, dump .... and so up to 20 inversions.
Is this sufficient now that I have the hardener.

Would using a hypo clear be a benefit?

How should I wash these modern films considering the hardener?

Paul Howell · Dec 19, 2021

I use Heico Perma Wash, the manufacture states wash times for archival as little as 3 minutes, after fix 1 minutes wash, 1 min in Perma Wash, then 1 min in final wash. I wash for 5 min in the finial wash. Currently I use PF T5, in the past standard Kodak Harding fix or a clone.

RalphLambrecht · Dec 19, 2021

Darko Kamer said:
Hello

After having fixer liquid concentrate go bad on the shelf its powdered fixers going forward.
Kodak Professional Fixer in a powder which contains a film hardener already mixer is the only powdered fixer available in my local camera store (and paying high shopping fees no longer appeals to me).

The B&W films (all Ilford) I shoot are already hardened so no need for hardener however ; i'm stuck with the hardener in the Kodak Professional Fixer powder.

With the previously used rapid fixer I have always performed the multiple tank rinses/ inversions washing method: so; fill tank invert 5 times soak, dump, fill tank invert 10 times soak, dump .... and so up to 20 inversions.
Is this sufficient now that I have the hardener.

Would using a hypo clear be a benefit?

How should I wash these modern films considering the hardener?

using hypo clear with films is of limited use but doesn't hurt either. a 5- minute wash in running water is sufficient even when a hardener is used.

tezzasmall · Dec 19, 2021

michael_r said:
Note that in addition to containing a gardener, Kodak Professional Fixer (powder) is a sodium thiosulfate (ie not rapid) fixer.

A gardener is enclosed with the fixer??!!??

That sounds like very good value.

Do they stay and garden until I've finished my fixer, or do I have to send them back sooner?...

Terry S

Nodda Duma · Dec 19, 2021

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. The hardener in the fixer doesn’t “add” to the hardener already in the emulsion to make it harder.

mshchem · Dec 19, 2021

Follow the instructions. Kodak F-5 fixer, sold packaged stinks something awful. I would consider making the Kodak F-6 version if the odor bothers you.

Remember that once you mix up a gallon of the powder fixer it will go bad in time.

I use rapid fix for all my work, and I use hardener, especially when printing with fiber based papers that will be toned.

One great advantage to making up solutions from the raw ingredients is you can make up 1 liter at a time, nothing goes to waste.

Doremus Scudder · Dec 19, 2021

You do know that you can buy rapid fixer in 1-liter bottles don't you? Tetenal used to sell even smaller sizes. I would think you would have to process very rarely to have a 1-liter bottle of rapid fix go bad on the shelf. It so, you could always split it into two 500ml bottles. The full one will keep for two years easily, then you'd have six months to use up the other 500ml.

Working solutions will last six months in full, tightly-sealed bottles as well.

If you really want to use the pre-packaged Kodak fixer, do do clearing tests and keep track of the proper fixing time, which will vary between 5 and 10 minutes depending on the state of exhaustion in the fixer.

Note also that many believe that conventional sodium-thiosulfate-based fixers are inadequate for T-Max and Delta films due to the higher amount of silver iodide in these films.
Personally, I'd be more comfortable using conventional fixer for prints than modern films just for this reason.

FWIW, I use rapid fixers one-session for film. I usually have enough film to develop (or I wait till I do) that I can mix 500ml of working solution, process all my film and toss the fixer into the silver-recovery jug at the end of the session. The practice of mixing a liter or two of working solution and then putting a roll or two through it now and then over the course of weeks (or months) is just begging for problems, with conventional fixers as well as rapid.

Best,

Doremus

mshchem · Dec 19, 2021

Doremus Scudder said:
You do know that you can buy rapid fixer in 1-liter bottles don't you? Tetenal used to sell even smaller sizes. I would think you would have to process very rarely to have a 1-liter bottle of rapid fix go bad on the shelf. It so, you could always split it into two 500ml bottles. The full one will keep for two years easily, then you'd have six months to use up the other 500ml.

Working solutions will last six months in full, tightly-sealed bottles as well.

If you really want to use the pre-packaged Kodak fixer, do do clearing tests and keep track of the proper fixing time, which will vary between 5 and 10 minutes depending on the state of exhaustion in the fixer.

Note also that many believe that conventional sodium-thiosulfate-based fixers are inadequate for T-Max and Delta films due to the higher amount of silver iodide in these films.
Personally, I'd be more comfortable using conventional fixer for prints than modern films just for this reason.

FWIW, I use rapid fixers one-session for film. I usually have enough film to develop (or I wait till I do) that I can mix 500ml of working solution, process all my film and toss the fixer into the silver-recovery jug at the end of the session. The practice of mixing a liter or two of working solution and then putting a roll or two through it now and then over the course of weeks (or months) is just begging for problems, with conventional fixers as well as rapid.

Best,

Doremus

This is all Excellent Advice!

Hardening Fixer for Modern Films and washing?

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