" Hand printed" prints

batwister · Mar 14, 2013

Firestarter said:
Take for example a guy who carves wood. He hand carves a piece of wood and makes an elephant. That to me is a hand made piece of work / art

But from his perspective, your idea of a photograph being 'hand made' would be an elaboration, if not an insult to his profession. To a sculptor of stone, the wood carver might be seen as a lesser 'hand craftsman'.
'Hand printing', 'physicality' and 'tangibility' are terms which were appropriated to emphasise the virtue of traditional photography since the advent of digital. Before digital, it was just a given.
Personally, I maintain that this self-consciousness about the process is the biggest threat to traditional photography.

batwister · Mar 14, 2013

I wonder if in a few years, we'll we be saying the same thing about mobile phones and hands free systems - i.e. there is more of a physical connection with the recipient when using your hands to send messages.

It is ultimately that there is an illusion of human contact with the viewer while 'touching' the image throughout the process - that it is actually 'sensed', a psychic presence in the print, whether visible as fingerprints or not! I've wrestled with that idea a bit.

NedL · Mar 14, 2013

jnanian said:
LOL
yes, hand roasted, perk brewed steeped too ... thanks for noticing

So you touch each bean as it comes out of the roaster??

ME Super · Mar 14, 2013

paul_c5x4 said:
Digibashing is probably best left to those that debate the finer points of Canon versus Nikon ad nauseum.

And while they are debating the finer points of Canon vs. Nikon, those of us who have a Pentax are out making pictures!

removed account4 · Mar 14, 2013

i sure do !
its sumatra, but it's not Kopi Luwak

NedL · Mar 15, 2013

jnanian said:
i sure do !
its sumatra, but it's not Kopi Luwak

( no I've never been tempted to roast that either! )

blansky · Mar 15, 2013

But, but, but, some of the darkroom people use tongs........

I do realize that darkroom work is very difficult but I much prefer to push the button on my digital camera then take out the card, stick it in my computer and push another button to retouching the image, then push the print button and its all done.

Then I push the button on my phone and call the client and they come in and I push the button on my computer and deposit the money into my account.

My work is not handmade it's finger made.

BMbikerider · Mar 15, 2013

Firestarter said:
When we make prints in the darkroom we remove a sheet of paper from it's box and place it on the easel. Then while the paper is being exposed we may dodge and burn areas of the print using masks or using our hands.

Then the sheet of paper is placed into the tray of developer using our hands of course, and then we agitate the tray or print again using our hands. Same then applies to the stop and fix. Then a darkroom printers print will go through various stages of washing and toning again by hand.

The print will then be dried and if needed spotted.....by hand...and so on etc etc

So I think it's fair to say a traditional silver print is " hand printed "

So what about digital photographers?:confused:

?

That is almost a treasonable offence on this site. There is a mandatory death sentence for treason!

horacekenneth · Mar 15, 2013

I don't believe in bashing digital but I think there might be a legitimate difference between wet prints and inkjet, and between negatives and computer file images. A difference worth exploring because it informs how we think about art.

edcculus · Mar 15, 2013

I think hand made can be a little misleading here. By the definition of hand made, I believe a digital picture and with inkjet print is every bit as hand made as a silver gelatin print. Doing digital work and prints yourself is every bit as "hard" as darkroom work. I might argue that the darkroom may even be EASIER. Yes I said it! In order to get good consistent inkjet prints, you have to calibrate your monitor, and calibrate the printer (and keep it in calibration). None of which are very easy tasks. Trust me, I run a prepress department and do monitor, printer, proofer and press calibrations for a living. A good RIP to handle color calibrations for multiple substrates and conditions can cost as much as $10,000.

We had a digital photographer shoot our wedding. Yes, we got a ton of pictures, as you would expect with any digital based photographer. They spent about 80 hours editing the images, and the work really shows.

NOW, I think the proper term should be HAND CRAFTED. Thats the difference for me between digital and analog. When I'm contemplating an image or shoot, I choose the camera, and lens I want to shoot with. I also choose a film that suits my vision of the shoot. I then have variables to consider like developer, development style. Then I have even more to think about when making enlargements. With the term "craft" you don't have to get into whether a peson is using a more automated darkroom, or is using open trays. Its not about time spent, or how much work goes into an enlargement. I've had (very few) negatives in which I had to do no dodging/burning and only had to settle on the right contrast and exposure time. That print is no less hand crafted than one where I cut 5 masks, burn here, dodge there. I just means I did my job right when making the initial exposure!

horacekenneth · Mar 15, 2013

edcculus said:
I think hand made can be a little misleading here.

I agree, I think it is a confusing way of expressing a more important question which is - how do we see the difference between analog and digital? Are they the same?

I'm not trying to say that digital is bad or anything. I think the OP is right that there is a difference, if hand made is inaccurate, what is it?

Chuck_P · Mar 15, 2013

horacekenneth said:
I agree, I think it is a confusing way of expressing a more important question which is - how do we see the difference between analog and digital? Are they the same?

I'm not trying to say that digital is bad or anything. I think the OP is right that there is a difference, if hand made is inaccurate, what is it?

I think its mostly that the phrase "hand made" just does not give a complete enough description anymore.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 15, 2013

My distinction between handmade items versus machine made is each handmade piece is slightly unique because humans are lousy at repeating a task or a process exactly the same every time. Machines on the other hand are lousy and being random and adding uniqueness to each item. The consumer has the final say in the value of the product. I'd rather have a hand made piece of art, while I like the consistency of machine manufactured goods like film.

TheFlyingCamera · Mar 15, 2013

As a printer who works in alternative processes, the distinction between hand-made and not hand-made is drawn at the point where you start coating your own emulsion :munch: In all seriousness though, I think calling the final print from an inkjet printer 'hand-made' is an overreach regardless of whether you print it on your own printer or you send it out to a custom (or not-so-custom) lab. This is in no way a denigration of the skill of the person behind the lens and keyboard who created the image and labored for hours and days in front of their monitor to tweak, polish, dust-remove etc. But once that work is done, I CAN just hit the "print" button and crank out as many identical prints as I have paper and ink to make. In that case, the print is not 'hand-made', but it is still not mass-produced. The problem with the term hand-made is that it's really a marketing term and as such is mis-used to artificially imply value over and above the intrinsic merit of the content of the work. If the content is crap, then all the technique in the world isn't going to make the print a better image, but it may just sucker someone in to buy it who doesn't understand any better. It targets the same folks who buy art on cruise ship auctions.

Firestarter · Mar 15, 2013

I think some people are seeing my comments as anti Digital, it's not about that, digital has some very good uses. Ebay photos for example

I just think it's preying on the consumer, just like any commercial enterprise will do. That's why I believe there should be more of a distinction between a digital print and a print produced by hand in the darkroom.

To me a digital print is hand manipulated but not hand printed. A darkroom print can of course be both.

And enough of the coffee bean jokes!

tkamiya · Mar 15, 2013

The thing is, consumers by large don't care and ones who do know.

Outside of Internet forums, most people look at the image and the price and at certain price point, name of the artist. How exactly the image was made is largely ignored.

Prof_Pixel · Mar 15, 2013

Firestarter said:
I just think it's preying on the consumer

Hardly. Consumers want their prints fast and cheap - and they always have. It's NOT a new digital 'thing'.

tkamiya · Mar 15, 2013

It's amazing how much of stuff we discuss in depth and argue over at length really doesn't matter to people outside the Internet enthusiast forums and to some extent, it shouldn't bother us either.

This hand-made print thing is just one example. Archival processing doesn't really matter either - is my print worth keeping 150 years? So does the extra sharpness of certain lenses. Tonality of certain films and developers - who's comparing?

I do some of that because I care but often, I have to pull myself back and really think - is this necessary?
There's hobbyists and enthusiasts. There are consumers. There are professionals who cater to consumers.
Priorities and requirements aren't even close for many cases. Oh, yeah, then there are Internet forums!

M Stat · Mar 15, 2013

Once I attended a gallery opening of John Wimberley's rock art photographs. I approached John and asked if he printed digitally, to which he held up his hands and wiggled his fingers, "these are the only digits I use", he said. By the same token, I met a reknown photographer (who will remain nameless) who spent a year harrassing his roommates pet cat to get the photographs for a book which he published. He informed the group who was listening that he just loves to do digital. All he has to do is set up the printer, push a button, and go play tennis while the machine did all of the work. Talk about the consumate craftsman. Needless to say his prints were utterly atrocious.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 15, 2013

Lack of respect for the art of photography?

M Stat said:
Needless to say his prints were utterly atrocious.

Looks like there was a lack of connoisseurship with the artist.

PKM-25 · Mar 15, 2013

After using digital means for over 20 years, I have no interest in pursuing it any further. It's not hand crafted in my book, is far too easy and between the web born hype and massive amount of Flickr born digi-garbage I see out there, I have no respect for it....I use it for commercial work, but I am trying eventually get out of that genre.

I have one life, that it...just one. I can not in any way see wasting it inventing compu-snap number 104,304,100,229,445 along with the rest of the world, posting it to some lame website that showcases what brand of camera I use and calling it "Fine Art Photography".

I care about how I spend my time and what I am handing over to my customers, I am not in any way interested in selling people computer prints.

moose10101 · Mar 15, 2013

Firestarter said:
Manipulating images using a keyboard and clicking print with a mouse doesn't seem hand made to me

I don't even want to know what you use to push your mouse around. :confused:

PKM-25 · Mar 15, 2013

moose10101 said:
I don't even want to know what you use to push your mouse around. :confused:

Well duh, a cat!

blansky · Mar 15, 2013

I get a kick out of all these thinly veiled and not so thinly veiled anti digital threads.

Perhaps these people should be spending more time turning out incredible analog work and less time whining about what anyone else is using.

The simple fact is that if your work is outstanding, nobody would want to buy what anyone else was selling.

PKM-25 · Mar 15, 2013

blansky said:
Perhaps these people should be spending more time turning out incredible analog work and less time whining about what anyone else is using.

I just wrapped up a three day marathon in the darkroom printing for a show, including 40 of these numbered "Hand Crafted" contact printed targeted mailers comprised of the lettering on acetate and a 4x5 neg placed on top of Ilford Postcard stock. Don't know about other people, but my D800 is quickly collecting dust because of all the work I have been doing on film lately...

Photo attached is them on the drying rack....

" Hand printed" prints

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