Hand holding a Mamiya 645 ?

Laurent · Apr 6, 2011

Hello all,

(I hope) this is not a "I can hand hold at lower speeds than anybody else" kind of thread !!

Let me explain : for my "merry go round project", my primary camera is the Rolleiflex, but the 3.5 lens is somewhat limiting.

Exposing Delta 3200 at 3200 is not a solution, as this becomes too demanding in terms of exposure accuracy, and I'll keep on using it at 1600, but this is still too slow.

Hence my question about handholding the Mamiya 645, as one of these beasts with the 1.9 80mm could be an option IF I can keep it still enough at slow speeds (I'd like to do 1/15, may be only 1/30).

Thanks in advance

RalphLambrecht · Apr 6, 2011

Have you considered a monopod?

Laurent · Apr 6, 2011

I'd like to be as mobile as possible, but yes I considered a monopod. I sometimes used a tripod with the Rolleiflex, but the workshop environment is not very tripod-friendly.

Actually I plan on testing my Hasselblad with the 2.8 lens and a tripod, to see what it can deliver.

Have you experienced one of these (Mamiya or Hasselblad) with a monopod in low light ?

RalphLambrecht · Apr 6, 2011

Laurent said:
... Have you experienced one of these (Mamiya or Hasselblad) with a monopod in low light ?

Yes, a monopod is a huge improvement over hand-held. Try it out to find how it works for you. I would not worry about holding 1/15 s on a monopod to get a shot. That said, remember that anything longer than 1/250 s will show camera shake unless it's on a good tripod. Ultimate image quality requires a tripod, but ultimate image quality s not always necessary. It's not how long the exposure can be, it's how much camera shake you're willing to accept. And sometimes it's the difference between a picture (any picture) and no picture at all.

bdial · Apr 6, 2011

If you think that even a monopod will interfere, you can brace you and/or the camera against walls, benches, and the like. The best results come from pressing the camera against the supporting surface so that the support comes from the solid surface and not your body. The downside with this method is that you don't have a lot of flexibility for framing.

frobozz · Apr 6, 2011

I have no problem handholding my 645 though I find the shutter button locations and/or the shape of the camera makes it a tad harder than with 35mm. So my minimum handheld shutter speed on the 645 is probably one click higher than with the Canon F-1 for any given situation. Like others have said, any given situation is helped the more you can brace yourself and the camera against immovable objects.

Duncan

hnrh2 · Apr 6, 2011

I would give a try to 1/30. I guess ultimate quality is not achieved. But I would use it if needed.
But with the 80 f1.9, the depth of field is tiny.

jeffreyg · Apr 6, 2011

If a tripod and monopod are out of the question for your situation, in addition to bracing yourself and the camera a reasonably long camera strap that not only goes around your neck but also tight against an arm can help. Also take a deep breath and exhale before pressing the shutter release.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Jeff Kubach · Apr 6, 2011

With a small 35mm you can get away with 1/15. I would go with a monopod.

Jeff

Franswa · Apr 6, 2011

Are you using a WLF or a prism finder? It'd be really tough for me trying to handhold under 1/60 using the WLF.

MattKing · Apr 6, 2011

Having a self-timer can also make a big difference. If you have the opportunity to brace the camera, and release the shutter using the self-timer, you can use some quite slow speeds.

The Mamiya 645 Super does not have a built in self-timer, while a 645 Pro does.

pbromaghin · Apr 6, 2011

You can try attaching a string to a bolt in the tripod hole with the other end a loop around your foot. I haven't tried it but the guy who told me about it swore it worked well for him in places like museums where tripods and monopods are prohibited.

brucemuir · Apr 6, 2011

Can you shoot 135?
Maybe try a rangefinder?

I think you will be sacrificing any advantage a larger neg gives you if you go too slow.

Laurent · Apr 6, 2011

At the moment I'm able to use the Rolleiflex at 1/15th using the WLF. The environment being a workshop with very high ceilings, I'm afraid the flash is not an option (I like the look of the images of round #1, shot in available light) and Delta 3200 shot at 3200 does not deliver pleasing shadows.

This sets my limits : 1/15th at f3.5 at the moment, and I'd like to go beyond these.

Tripod and monopod are not "out", but the tripod is a bit clumsy. I did not try the monopod, and might give it a try.

For the moment 35mm is ruled out because I started the project in 6x6 and it makes more sense for me to continue using the Rolleiflex.

My questioning is more on the feasibility of using the Mamiya (to be acquired only for this lens) or may be the Hasselblad at low speeds, and if people have experience with this.

anikin · Apr 6, 2011

I don't know if it could be any use for you, but sometimes I use gorillapod as a chest/shoulder support. Basically, I attach the larger gorillapod to the camera and use two legs to press against the chest and one on my shoulder. With mirror lock up even 1/8 gives an acceptable ratio of keepers on 35mm. Of course, if you don't have the gorillapod, you might as well try a real chest support, something like:

http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-Shoulder-Support-Camcorder-Camera/dp/B0036NMQ7S/ref=pd_cp_p_0

Just a idea...

RalphLambrecht · Apr 6, 2011

pbromaghin said:
You can try attaching a string to a bolt in the tripod hole with the other end a loop around your foot. I haven't tried it but the guy who told me about it swore it worked well for him in places like museums where tripods and monopods are prohibited.

Make that string a tie strap and you have a winner!

keithwms · Apr 6, 2011

Well, (there was a url link here which no longer exists) is a handheld shot with a mamiya 645 afd, 1/20 sec with the 80/1.9 lens, shot to Fuji proz pushed 2 stops (but rated at 1600). The afd is nicely handholdable for such exposures. The m645 pro somewhat less so, but still doable. I think the shot was reasonably successful. And it wasn't heroic, it was just a casual shot in a noisy bar after I had a bit of alcohol in my system

As I recall I just did my usual elbow-against-the-hip bracing. It doesn't look sexy... but it works.

So sure, it is doable.

What you can achieve depends very much on your technique. A mistake that some people make, I think, is to impart some impulse to the camera with their trigger finger pushing straight down. That's no good for such exposures- much better to use the timer or simply to gently press down with the meaty part of your fingertip.

I am a big fan of monopods, but for some shots they just aren't workable.

Just experiment! Find out for yourself what your limits are. Perosnally, I don't mind trying and failing, as oppposed to taking someone else's word for it

ContaxRTSFundus · Apr 7, 2011

Hand-holding even a small SLR at around 1/15th with fast glass and a shallow dof is tricky enough. I use Fuji GX680III and Mamiya RZ ProIIs hand-held and find their weight on a strap using the WLF helpful bet even 1/30th is high risk for me. I have seen reference to a chest-harness for photographers which should be practical with a WLF at slow speeds. If you're using a prism finder, I'd opt for a monopod as a minimum. I used to own a few Mamiya 645 ProTL and Supers and used their faster lenses hand-held for 'candid' portraiture and was once praised for 'the creative use of blur...' - good thing they never knew it was an unwanted accident!

CGW · Apr 7, 2011

Having a motor grip greatly improves the otherwise awful ergonomics of the Super/Pro/ProTL bodies. Monopods are a good solution. I also use one of the teensy Manfrotto tabletop tripods with a small ball head. Propped against walls or any vertical surface, this set-up makes for a very stable, pocket-size support. 1/30 is right at the edge for me with an 80/ 2.8 wide open.

cjbecker · Apr 7, 2011

It can be done with a hassy at 2.8. I have got some nice shots at 1/30 and 1/15, and they were sharp.

aoresteen · Apr 7, 2011

I'd use a monopod. You will need the Mamiya triopod adapter to flip the camera for vertical shots. I like the 8mm f/1.9 lens.

NJS · Apr 8, 2011

it all depends how large are you going to print it:

sleep together by OverdeaR :, on Flickr
1/4s

midnight blues by OverdeaR :, on Flickr
1/8s

both taken with M645 1000s... really, of all the MF gear I have 1000s has the the dampest mirror action.

Laurent · Apr 8, 2011

Thanks all for all the interesting suggestions. I asked mainly because I have the opportunity to trade my 500C for a 1000s with the 80/1.9.

I think I'll give myself more time to get proficient with the 'Blad, as I really like the square format, and will play with the monopod for sometime to get the extra speed I need.

Hand holding a Mamiya 645 ?

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