hand-held MF?

rexp · Oct 9, 2007

Well... I read all the posts. I agree with the rangefinder option, and have used Konis with good success. I did have a loaner program for a while (search for "MF Loaner") where I sent one of my Koni cameras for someone to borrow in exchange for a few prints. I stopped because I need to get the lens repaired, and since my daughter was recently married I didn't have the disposable funds to do so (I need to start working towards the repair, loaning the camera & receiving prints has been fun)

So... if you don't mind fiddling with the lens to keep things moving (I can include some suggestions on technique), you are welcome to borrow it. We could live by the same rules as you will find in my other loaner program postings.

If nothing else, it would be a really cheap way to see if this camera fits your hands & style.

Best of luck with your search.
rexp

sausage100uk · Oct 9, 2007

I just got a 1950s Agfa Ilsola I for my aniversary (we don't do presents but she is feeding my cheap camera fetish, found at a boot sale by my O/H as a little pressie) 120 film, 2 appetures, 2 shutter speeds, Medium format heaven

Jack Lusted · Oct 9, 2007

Properly used, the Rolleiflex should rest on the ring and pinky fingers of both hands. Your right thumb presses on the knob of the winder, and rotates it between shots. Your right index finger rests on the shutter button. Your left thumb and index finger work the focus knob. You can shoot an entire roll of 120 film in 10-15 seconds like that without ever shifting the camera or lifting your eye from the eyepiece.

Once you hold the camera like this, and spend five minutes shooting a roll a film in this manner, you will "get" the Rolleiflex at last and see why it is such a well-designed camera.

RFXB[/QUOTE]
Dear RFXB

Thank you for this. I've been struggling with a Rollei for some time now. Just tried out your suggestion and the whole thing 'works'.

A moment of epiphany.

Jack

Mike Kovacs · Oct 9, 2007

I would add a short strap is virtually a necessity to shoot a TLR well. Adjust it so its at optimum viewing height. You can gain additional stability by pulling down slightly on the camera as you make the exposure.

Cheryl Jacobs · Oct 9, 2007

TLR's are great for a lot of things, but for portrait shooters who like to work in close, the parallax can be a killer. I liked the feel of the rollei, but the parallax problem was a showstopper for me.

- CJ

Rolleiflexible · Oct 9, 2007

Jack Lusted said:
Dear RFXB

Thank you for this. I've been struggling with a Rollei for some time now. Just tried out your suggestion and the whole thing 'works'.

A moment of epiphany.

Jack

Another satisfied customer!

Rolleiflex TLRs really are divine works of industrial design, once you figure them out.

RXFB

MattKing · Oct 9, 2007

This may not be an answer for you, but I think it illustrates the observation that you should choose a camera that fits your approach, and your hands.

I have limited strength, dexterity and range of motion in my right hand. I have terrible problems using many cameras. Cameras designed recently are the worst, as they seem to assume that all users want to be able to use them mainly with the right hand.

My main MF cameras are exceptions. I use both my Mamiya C330, and my Mamiya 645 Super/Pro with left hand grips (with built in shutter releases) and focus extension levers or knobs. I also have a slightly modified film wind crank on my C330, although I probably don't need it.

I might be able to use a Hassy with the focus lever and a grip, but my limited experience with that camera makes me doubtful.

Now if only I could find something to make the focus control on the Koni-Omega more suitable for me, I would really be happy.

By the way, when it comes to 35mm bodies, there are definitely different ways to hold them. I use a very unorthodox style (right hand used just to cradle and wind, left hand fully on top to focus, adjust and release shutter) that is only possible because of the small size on my (Olympus OM) cameras.

I guess my advice is, experiment with different approaches, but don't hesitate to accept the fact that some cameras may just not "fit".

Matt

Rolleiflexible · Oct 9, 2007

Cheryl Jacobs said:
TLR's are great for a lot of things, but for portrait shooters who like to work in close, the parallax can be a killer. I liked the feel of the rollei, but the parallax problem was a showstopper for me.

- CJ

Cheryl, that's not correct with respect to Rolleiflex TLRs. It's not my gig -- I shoot rocks and bushes and streams and trees, and very poorly at that -- but there are a lot of people out there who use Rolleiflexes for close-in portaiture. Like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandersnyc/1466825624/

The Rolleiflex and its close-up attachments have built-in parallax correction. The Rolleiflex finder has a moving mask in the viewfinder that shows what the taking lens sees. The close-up attachments have a fitting that goes over the viewing lens to make additional corrections. So, parallax isn't really an issue for the Rolleiflexes for the most part.

I say "for the most part," because parallax will still hurt you when taking background into account. The Rolleiflex compensates for the shift for the purposes of framing your subject. But if your subject is very close, and you are trying to capture an element of the background that appears in the finder immediately above and behind the subject's head, the head will obscure the element in the final photograph because the taking lens is lower than the viewing lens. The head will be exactly where you want it, but the background will have shifted. That probably sounds odd, but, if you think about the mechanics of it, all will fall into place.

Best,

RFXB

Cheryl Jacobs · Oct 9, 2007

RFXB, good information, but it's still a problem for me. When I'm composing, particularly in close, I want to know exactly what will be in my frame, background included. It's not enough for me to just have the head where I want it.

I'm not saying that the rollei can't be used for portraiture. I'm saying that for those who do portraiture with a lot of close-in work, it can be problematic. For me, it is.

- CJ

Phillip P. Dimor · Oct 9, 2007

For me, it's a Pentax 645. WYSIWYG. Very comfortable to use if you like 35mm SLR's. Problem is with accessories. Tubes and bellows are tough to find or expensive.

I've used a Mamiya 7, it was fantastic. If you like rangefinders, this would be a major consideration if you've got the cash.

Antje · Oct 10, 2007

I love handholding my Hasselblad 500C and CM. I too use a strap and make sure it's taut - works wonderfully. I'm sure it's personal preference, though!

Antje

Trond · Oct 10, 2007

I use my Bronica S2A mostly hand held, and it usually works out fine. The biggest problem is depth of field related, because my two year old son is running out of focus all the time. The Bronica is also slower to work with, compared to 35mm, and the S2A is quite heavy to carry around. I'm used to the weight now though.

For me, medium format and 35mm, requires different styles of shooting. I do shoot a lot with both formats, and what I choose depends on the task in hand and whatever format I feel like using.

It is possible that a prism and grip on the Bronica, would speed things up, but factors like weight, bulk and more limited depth of field, are still there.

Trond

Nicole · Oct 13, 2007

Hi Janet, I'm not big and strong either but have trained myself to work with the hasselblad. It took some time getting used to but I photograph portraits and moving children with the blad 501cm & WLF hand held all the time and absolutely love it. If I need to work really fast I use the Pentax 645NII. The relationship with a blad is like a wonderful marriage. It just takes a little patience and nurturing. Hang in there!

Woolliscroft · Oct 13, 2007

Another vote for the Mamiya 7II: its a gem with wonderful glass, but then I'm another one who has never been able to get on with TLRs.

David.

papagene · Oct 13, 2007

If I had the money to burn, I would get a Mamiya 7II and a set of lenses. Over the years I have picked up a couple of Fuji MF RFs - the GW670II and the GSW690III. I tend to shoot the GW670II about 85% of the time when I am not lugging around a 4x5 or 5x7.
I have used a Mamiya C330S and owned a Yashica Mat 124G. They were fun to use, but I prefer the Fujis.
There have been a lot of good suggestions offered, but this is a situation where you need to get your hands on a bunch of different cameras to see what feels best to you.
Good luck and keep us posted on your quest.

gene

HerrBremerhaven · Oct 13, 2007

Strange none mention the Rollei 6000 series, though maybe I missed that. If you look for a 6008 or 6003, get the hand grip, then this is a well balanced camera. They are not light weight, though with the grip the weight is less noticeable. Prices used are slightly higher than Hasselblad 500 series, though less than Hasselblad 200 series (electronic) to which they really should be compared. Lenses are very similar from Zeiss, and you can also get Schneider lenses.

I never liked Hasselblad 500 series ergonomics either. These cameras always seemed clunky to me. Anyway, since you are shooting 6x6, might as well stick to 6x6.

If you move to 645, then I somewhat agree with the Bronica RF645 recommendation, though the long lens (100mm) is an issue (135mm is very rare). Probably the most ergonomic of 645 SLRs I have used is the Contax 645, though that might be out of your budget.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio

k_jupiter · Oct 13, 2007

HerrBremerhaven said:
Strange none mention the Rollei 6000 series, though maybe I missed that. If you look for a 6008 or 6003, get the hand grip, then this is a well balanced camera. They are not light weight, though with the grip the weight is less noticeable. Prices used are slightly higher than Hasselblad 500 series, though less than Hasselblad 200 series (electronic) to which they really should be compared. Lenses are very similar from Zeiss, and you can also get Schneider lenses.

Yeah, back on page 1. That's what I liked most about it... how balanced it was with the pistol grip. I couldn't afford one then (1986), I can't afford one today.

The rb will have to do.

tim in san jose

DrPablo · Oct 13, 2007

The Hassy had a bit of a learning curve, but I now find it extremely easy to use handheld. I tend to favor 400 speed films these days, as it allows me to shoot at faster shutter speeds (or stop down a little more). For many subjects I use mirror lockup even handheld. It's easy to trigger, and if you have the camera braced against yourself the composition will barely change. Shooting 1/30 is no problem with the 150mm lens if you lock up the mirror.

Bandicoot · Oct 14, 2007

Rolleiflexible said:
Properly used, the Rolleiflex should rest on the ring and pinky fingers of both hands. Your right thumb presses on the knob of the winder, and rotates it between shots. Your right index finger rests on the shutter button. Your left thumb and index finger work the focus knob. You can shoot an entire roll of 120 film in 10-15 seconds like that without ever shifting the camera or lifting your eye from the eyepiece.

What he said - also, a neck strap makes a huge difference, and makes it a really easy camera to use. (I wish OpTech made a set of strap ends to fit.)

Peter

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 14, 2007

Trond said:
I use my Bronica S2A mostly hand held, and it usually works out fine. The biggest problem is depth of field related, because my two year old son is running out of focus all the time. The Bronica is also slower to work with, compared to 35mm, and the S2A is quite heavy to carry around. I'm used to the weight now though.

For me, medium format and 35mm, requires different styles of shooting. I do shoot a lot with both formats, and what I choose depends on the task in hand and whatever format I feel like using.

It is possible that a prism and grip on the Bronica, would speed things up, but factors like weight, bulk and more limited depth of field, are still there.

Trond

The Bronica prisms are pretty dim, so they don't help as much as one might hope. The chimney finder is a real help, though, along with the pistol grip.

If you don't have a focus lever, I highly recommend it. I wouldn't use my S2a without it.

fschifano · Oct 14, 2007

I don't know. I think, Janet, that if you can see your way clear to getting a prism finder for the 'blad that many of your problems will disappear. No matter the camera, hand holding is more easily accomplished with eye level viewing.

pauledell · Oct 15, 2007

Handheld MF

Janet,

I understand your feelings about using tripods. I have a rollei 6003
with 80mm lens only. In my experience, while handholding a camera
of that size is feasible, but using a tripod certainly prduces better results.
Try taking images both ways, with and without a tripod and I bet you will
see the difference in quality. of course, if you take mostly spontaneous
pictures, the is no option but handheld. I take many landscapes and
find the more deliberate approach using a tripod works for me.
I hope you have good luck whichever way you shoot.

Paul

Struan Gray · Oct 15, 2007

Just a me too on the practicality of handheld MF. A 6x6 SLR is my standard walkabout serious-snapshot camera. For me, the tonality of the larger negative is worth having, even if handholding negates some of the sharpness advantages.

I don't find having larger cameras up to my face to be a good way of working though. Pulling the camera into my chest or waist with both hands gives me a more steady view than trying to hold it up to my eye, so I prefer a waist-level viewer. I'm not trying to do rapid-fire stuff though.

jgcull · Oct 16, 2007

Struan, I love that image of the beautiful baby. That was a tricky shot to get with a waist level finder.

David R Munson · Oct 17, 2007

Hmmmm...I certainly discovered this thread a bit late in the game. That said, I'll contribute my experience.

I have had the fortune (ie fickle nature) to have shot with a very wide range of medium format equipment, all of it handheld at some point or another. This includes a Mamiya twin-lens, several generations of Mamiya 645, Mamiya RB67, Fuji rangefinder, Hassy, etc.

The two most hand-holdable medium format cameras for me have been the RB67 and the Mamiya 645 Pro. I shoot the 645 Pro handheld with an 80mm f/1.9 and a motor drive/grip, often doing available light work down to 1/8 sec. I should point out that I'm a BIG believer in lens speed, and the 80mm f/1.9 is about as beautiful and fast a lens as you're likely to find in the MF world.

At 1/4 or 1/8 of a second handheld with any camera, you're not going to wind up with results as sharp as you'd get with a tripod, but you'd be surprised what you can get sometimes. Here's one I handheld at 1/8s with the 645 on my recent trip to Mongolia:

I know you can't necessarily tell how sharp it really is from a jpg that size, but bottom line is that it is more than usably sharp.

The real surprise to me was just how stable at slow speed the RB67 is. It's a big honkin' camera, about the same size and weight as a car battery, but the action of the shutter is easily the smoothest of any medium format SLR I've ever used. What's more, I feel like the mass of the camera actually helps stabilize it in your hands in practical usage.

What works for a give person is going to change with every person, but essentially what I'm getting at is that handheld medium format can be far more practical than some might suggest.

hand-held MF?

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