Gum prints and acrylic paint

stephen_gray98 · Aug 26, 2011

Hello all. Has anyone ever produced a gum print using acrylic paint instead of watercolour paint ? I've got some process colour acrylic and would like to give it a go.

SPG

David Hatton · Aug 26, 2011

stephen_gray98 said:
Hello all. Has anyone ever produced a gum print using acrylic paint instead of watercolour paint ? I've got some process colour acrylic and would like to give it a go.

SPG

I haven't personally but I know somone who does
http://www.hands-on-pictures.com/Tutorials/Gum.html

Hope it helps
David

donbga · Aug 26, 2011

David Hatton said:
I haven't personally but I know somone who does
http://www.hands-on-pictures.com/Tutorials/Gum.html

Hope it helps
David

Terry King is the last person I would recommend for information.

As for acrylic pigments you are much better off using watercolor paints.

stephen_gray98 · Aug 26, 2011

donbga said:
Terry King is the last person I would recommend for information.

As for acrylic pigments you are much better off using watercolor paints.

Any reason you wouldn't recommend Terry ?

SPG

holmburgers · Aug 26, 2011

I too am curious if acrylics will work, particularly with carbon. For instance, Liquitex's acrylic Ink!

Everyone knows that watercolors work well; why not explore other materials?

donbga · Aug 26, 2011

holmburgers said:
I too am curious if acrylics will work, particularly with carbon. For instance, Liquitex's acrylic Ink!

Everyone knows that watercolors work well; why not explore other materials?

The question about acrylics comes up periodically and as I recall no has been too successful with them. You like to dabble Chris so go for it and let us know how it works.

holmburgers · Aug 26, 2011

I don't dabble near as much as I babble...

But perhaps you're right. My fear would be simply that the acrylics will harden completely and make the gum or carbon insoluble. An easy test would be to make an acrylic tissue, let it dry and run it under hot water. This, I could probably do quite easily.

donbga · Aug 26, 2011

holmburgers said:
I don't dabble near as much as I babble...

But perhaps you're right. My fear would be simply that the acrylics will harden completely and make the gum or carbon insoluble. An easy test would be to make an acrylic tissue, let it dry and run it under hot water. This, I could probably do quite easily.

Why bother when we know water color pigments work so well. If it ain't broke ..., I'm just sayin'

GumPhoto · Aug 26, 2011

Acrylic paint is an integral component of the Temperaprint process. Temperaprint is a dichromated colloid process similar to gum, where the colloid happens to be egg whites. There are many examples available online. I've tried both temperaprint and gum with acrylic paint and I find them both lacking, but it is a matter of taste. For me, the opaque nature of the acrylic process limits what I feel to me a fundamental advantage of gum: the ability to allow colors to shine through subsequent layers. The result is a "poster-like" effect that CAN be very effective (and the online examples will demonstrate that). In my experience, edge effects are very difficult to bring off. as the acrylic paint seems to harden on its own in areas where one might expect it to be more soluble. The result is All-or-Nothing. There is no paint, or there is paint, but not the subtle variances that one gets with watercolor.

If there is interest, I can post some examples of some (unsuccessful) attempts I have made with acrylic pigments and gum.

Keith

holmburgers · Aug 26, 2011

My interest in particular is [was] that this Ink! product has an ideal CMY set... [10 minutes go by] ...but I see now that the same pigments are available in Winsor & Newton's watercolors.

GumPhoto · Aug 26, 2011

And don't pick on Terry. He's been sick lately.

dwross · Aug 26, 2011

holmburgers said:
My interest in particular is [was] that this Ink! product has an ideal CMY set... [10 minutes go by] ...but I see now that the same pigments are available in Winsor & Newton's watercolors.

I had very good luck with water soluble inks. http://www.danielsmith.com/Item--i-G-284-220

I put them over a silver gelatin paper base, rather than bare paper, but they hardened up and acted just like watercolors in gum. I stopped using them because the colors are too bold for the look I want, but if bold and bright is a goal, these are the thing.

wildbillbugman · Aug 26, 2011

Isn't there such a thing as as a transparent acrylic? I dunno. I am asking because there are plenty of opaque watercolors.
The derogatory comment about Terry was totaly inapropriate for any of the technical forums. If you absolutely must attack somene, please go to one of the general discussion forums at the bottom (apropriately) of the forum list.
Bill

GumPhoto · Aug 26, 2011

wildbillbugman said:
Isn't there such a thing as as a transparent acrylic? I dunno. I am asking because there are plenty of opaque watercolors.
The derogatory comment about Terry was totaly inapropriate for any of the technical forums. If you absolutely must attack somene, please go to one of the general discussion forums at the bottom (apropriately) of the forum list.
Bill

The comment regarding Terry was certainly not an attack.

As for "transparent acrylic", I just viewed a youtube video featuring the Rowney brand of acrylic inks that shows it to be very transparent. I'll be trying this very soon.

wildbillbugman · Aug 26, 2011

GumPhoto said:
The comment regarding Terry was certainly not an attac .

I know that. I was reffering to the post you commented on

GumPhoto · Aug 26, 2011

wildbillbugman said:
I know that. I was reffering to the post you commented on

Well, I happen to like Terry a lot. I love his tenacity, his spirit, his work and his contribution to the field. That said, I have to say that I don't believe that Don was being derogatory in his statement. Nuff said.

Hexavalent · Aug 26, 2011

Although not exactly what the OP has proposed, some years ago, I did tinker with acrylics used a substitute for gum - not just as a pigment. I diluted the paint with acrylic medium to reduce the colour density, added dichro, allowed to dry, exposed and 'developed' as done with gum. It worked: not so wonderful for contones, but quite well for screened negatives (hard-dot). I found that exposure and development had to be done as soon as product was dry enough. Within a few hours, the acrylic becomes completely hardened and un-developable. It remains one of those "interesting experiments" that I've not revisited.

GumPhoto · Aug 26, 2011

Hexavalent said:
Although not exactly what the OP has proposed, some years ago, I did tinker with acrylics used a substitute for gum - not just as a pigment. I diluted the paint with acrylic medium to reduce the colour density, added dichro, allowed to dry, exposed and 'developed' as done with gum. It worked: not so wonderful for contones, but quite well for screened negatives (hard-dot). I found that exposure and development had to be done as soon as product was dry enough. Within a few hours, the acrylic becomes completely hardened and un-developable. It remains one of those "interesting experiments" that I've not revisited.

Really? You used only acrylic with dichro and NO added colloid? That's truly weird! But after consulting the google, I find

"Organic Chemistry it is the branch of Chemistry that studies molecules with carbon atoms. Acrylic resins have the acryl functional group with structure H2C=CH-C(=O)-R derived from acrylic acid. Compounds containing an acryl group can be referred to as "acrylic compounds". Therefore, acrylic resins belong to this compounds' family."

So I guess, you can say that acrylics ARE an "organic colloid"?

So now I have something else I need to try! thanks!

Hexavalent · Aug 26, 2011

GumPhoto said:
Really? You used only acrylic with dichro and NO added colloid? That's truly weird! But after consulting the google, I find

.....
So I guess, you can say that acrylics ARE an "organic colloid"?

So now I have something else I need to try! thanks!

I've used Elmer's glue in a similar fashion - there is a variety (can't remember the exact name) that is designed for kids - it dries, but does not immediately harden (makes for easy-cleaning of spills etc,.). I will caution that clearing dichro stain from 'glue' emulsions is takes a lot of washing - a very sturdy support paper is needed.

Gum prints and acrylic paint

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency