Gum over (toned) Vandyke?

Loris Medici · Jun 29, 2010

Will this myself soon (I'm just in the middle of calibrating - with many processes - for my new lightsource...) but wanted to ask anyway:

Do you think Vandykes "that were gold toned to completion" may withstand the bleaching action of the dichromate in the gum emulsion? I'm really interested in doing Gum over Vandykes... Is there anyone that did Gum over Vandykes before?

TIA,
Loris.

R Shaffer · Jun 29, 2010

Loris Medici said:
Will this myself soon (I'm just in the middle of calibrating - with many processes - for my new lightsource...) but wanted to ask anyway:

Do you think Vandykes "that were gold toned to completion" may withstand the bleaching action of the dichromate in the gum emulsion? I'm really interested in doing Gum over Vandykes... Is there anyone that did Gum over Vandykes before?

TIA,
Loris.

While not precisely the same, I have been doing gum-overs on toned and un-toned kallitypes. I did coat the un-toned kallitype with 1:1 dilution of PVA size prior to gum. I see no bleaching, but I have not made any side-by-side comparisons.

Loris Medici · Jun 29, 2010

Ok, that's good news. OTOH, right after posting I remembered Denise Ross' "silvergum" images -> if that works with silvergum, should most probably work for Vandykes too, moreso with toned ones. Thanks...

R Shaffer · Jun 29, 2010

Loris Medici said:
Ok, that's good news. OTOH, right after posting I remembered Denise Ross' "silvergum" images -> if that works with silvergum, should most probably work for Vandykes too, moreso with toned ones. Thanks...

Right after I posted I recalled that during a gum workshop the instructor, Brian Taylor, had suggested that if you wanted to start with a brown base layer, in lieu of cyanotype, that he would use VDB.

We had just seen a demo of toning cyanotype & been discussing it in relation to our gum printing. So yes, it should work.

sanking · Jun 29, 2010

Loris Medici said:
Will this myself soon (I'm just in the middle of calibrating - with many processes - for my new lightsource...) but wanted to ask anyway:

Do you think Vandykes "that were gold toned to completion" may withstand the bleaching action of the dichromate in the gum emulsion? I'm really interested in doing Gum over Vandykes... Is there anyone that did Gum over Vandykes before?

TIA,
Loris.

Loris,

Just curious what you are trying to achieve. Do you want to use gum over to add density or color, or is it just to add some sheen?

Sandy King

Loris Medici · Jun 30, 2010

Hi Sandy,

It's poor man's gum over pt/pd Really, it's purely to add color...

I have difficulties in obtaining pt/pd materials locally, and I absolutely don't want to deal with importing chemistry from abroad anymore. Therefore, I'm limiting myself to what I can do with locally obtainable materials...

Regards,
Loris.

phritz phantom · Jun 30, 2010

hi loris,
i did try this a while ago and i did see a lot of bleaching. the vandyke was untoned though and the dichromate was in a saturated solution. look at the pic below. this is a part of a print, i brushed the gum emulsion over the vandyke print, left it in the dark for a day (i think...) and then washed it off (no exposure). the dark brown on the left side is the original vandyke color, the mustardy yellow what's left after the gum emulsion.

in another thread somewhere on this board i asked denise ross about bleaching in the silver layer of her prints and she said she saw none. i think the general consensus was that the gelatin in her way of working protects the silver particles better than in the vandykies.

Loris Medici · Jun 30, 2010

Yes, phritz, the moment you had mentioned it I remembered your images, thanks! Denise is probably right, the gelatin limits the dichromate action on the image + I presume her gelatin-protected image-forming silver grains are much much larger than unprotected Vandyke's colloidal silver grains...

I'm going to use PVA glue as size before gum printing over toned Vandyke, and that will provide some extra protection I'm sure.

Will do it soon; the moment I'll have a little time (2 evenings) to calibrate gold-toned Vandyke.

Regards,
Loris.

R Shaffer · Jun 30, 2010

Loris Medici said:
It's poor man's gum over pt/pd Really, it's purely to add color...

Regards,
Loris.

I can relate to that

It works quite well to shift the tone and deepen shadows with a pigment like Schmincke Burnt Umber.
http://hybridphoto.com/gallery/files/6/0/1/nudes-1.jpg

I have just started experimenting with multi-layer gum, but in this case the yellow, quin. gold, was not transparent enough. Tried to adjust with a layer of winsor blue.
http://hybridphoto.com/gallery/files/6/0/1/gum-over_kallitype.jpg

Gum over (toned) Vandyke?

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