groundglass back alternative for Horseman 9xx/VH(R) ?

removedacct2 · Jan 20, 2021

I am this close to buy myself a Horseman 980. i plan to take 75/80% photos with RF focusing and 25/20% with movements and so will need the groundglass for focusing with a loupe.

I can't find that back on the usual online portals ! at best only the frame part without the flap nor the locks (nor the glass, but that is a detail easy to fix). I could use the angle viewfinder, but it's big and heavy right?
I can tinker a bit but I don't see myself making a back from scratch. A 3d print could do but then I'd need a STL file.
I don't find after a basic search online docs about adapting backs from other systems (but then I guess only Linhof maybe) so I guess this is not possible/available.
Just want to hear from connoisseurs here

Dan Fromm · Jan 20, 2021

I have the angle finder, which fts 2x3 Graflok backs. I've used it on 2x3 Graphics and a 2x3 Cambo. No huge, not heavy, but quite dim. I no longer use it.

What you're looking for is called a focusing panel. Some of the 980s on offer on eBay have one, others don't. Here https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXC-5-Topc...e-8EX-120Filmback-from-JAPAN-671/293959086520 is one with a focusing panel. 2x3 Horseman cameras, like 2x3 Graphics, were sold with focusing panels. Many of them, like many 2x3 Graphics, were used with roll holders and their focusing panels were lost or misplaced and forgotten.

Good luck with your search.

ic-racer · Jan 20, 2021

Most of the listings I see on e-bay show the ground glass back is included, even if it comes with a rollfilm back.
This is one of the first ones that popped up on an ebay search:

grat · Jan 20, 2021

I've been looking at the Horseman cameras. That one has no RF cams, as I recall. Not the end of the world, but worth noting. They're normally stored either "in use" in the focusing bed, or stored in two little slots at the top inside the body, either side of the catch. They look empty to me.

ic-racer · Jan 20, 2021

grat said:
I've been looking at the Horseman cameras. That one has no RF cams, as I recall. Not the end of the world, but worth noting. They're normally stored either "in use" in the focusing bed, or stored in two little slots at the top inside the body, either side of the catch. They look empty to me.

I think, when you are assembling your system, the cams will come with the lenses, not the camera. If you find a camera with cams in the little storage place, I'd think that would be very unusual because the cams then are separated from their lenses (assuming the camera does not come with the lenses for the cams). I keep all my cams in a 35mm film canister. There are seven of them and they all won't fit in the camera. There is also a place to keep the cams in the Horseman hard case.

grat · Jan 20, 2021

ic-racer said:
I think, when you are assembling your system, the cams will come with the lenses, not the camera. If you find a camera with cams in the little storage place, I'd think that would be very unusual. I keep all my cams in a 35mm film canister. There are seven of them and they all won't fit in the camera.

This past weekend, I was "this" close to buying a Horseman, preferably a VH-R. Ultimately, I bought myself a 6x9 roll film back for my Chamonix instead, but before I reached that decision, I looked at every Horseman on the bay of fleas under about $500 USD. All but a small handful had at least one cam visible in the storage pocket, and several had two. Many of them had another on the focusing bed. I remembered that one specifically, because for the price, I felt it was slightly annoying it didn't have any visible cams, and it had the 980 style film back. I admit, I'm cheap.

Obviously, the cams would be a grab bag-- as you say, there are 7, and each camera can only hold 3. You'd think they'd have put a clip on the back of the lensboard.

If you don't mind me asking, which model do you have, and how do you like it? The idea of a lightweight MF camera with movements and a rangefinder appeals to me.

ic-racer · Jan 20, 2021

I see my picture is from 2007. I got in to Horseman when it was pretty easy to get a complete system. Back then B&H was still selling many of the accessories brand new. In fact that rollfilm back pictured was brand new from B&H.

ic-racer · Jan 20, 2021

I'm not sure how hard it is to find cams these days, but the 'extra' cams hidden in a camera body you are considering purchasing might be for a lens you will never own.

grat · Jan 20, 2021

They run anywhere from $25 to $50 each, and some lenses have them, most don't. Ideally, I'd like to do some 3D modeling of them and see if a PETG printed cam would work as well.

I found a couple that had the grip included-- but it was mounted upside down. I'm also easily amused.

removedacct2 · Jan 21, 2021

Dan Fromm said:
Many of them, like many 2x3 Graphics, were used with roll holders and their focusing panels were lost or misplaced and forgotten.

I'll just buy one with the focusing panel. I had in mind a combined buy from one seller who lists separately a body, types of backs and lenses I want, so I could buy my starting kit at one place, a bit cheaper and everything coming in one parcel, but the body he sells lacks the focusing panel. No problem of course, can buy all I want from different places.

cams:

grat said:
I'd like to do some 3D modeling of them and see if a PETG printed cam would work as well.

I don't have a 3D scanner nor printer, but after I buy a Horseman I will ask someone to model the focusing panel parts and do PETG prints. With the scarcity of focusing panels for sales, it will become critical to have an alternative at some point. For cams, I'd rather have a machinist make them though.

otherwise I was thinking first of a VH-R, but see none sold with the eyecup(s). VH-R manual on Michael Butkus site shows they came natively with the eyecup for the viewfinder, though i see no smaller eyecup for the rangfinder. I still haven't found a VH-R for sale with eyecup, but virtually all 980 have two (VF and RF). When using the rollfilm back I am thinking it can be nice to have less possible light interference when composing and focusing, so I'll be 980 and for portrait orientation I'll just put the camera on the side and use swing for tilt. Finally I had as well bought a 970 but they lack movements....

ic-racer · Jan 21, 2021

I posted scans of some of the cams on a flat-bed scanner with a ruler a while back., maybe I can find the post.

Dan Fromm · Jan 21, 2021

Cams are offered on yahoo.jp. I use https://buyee.jp/yahoo/auction?lang=en, an English language front end to yahoo.jp.

removedacct2 · Jan 23, 2021

ic-racer said:
I see my picture is from 2007. I got in to Horseman when it was pretty easy to get a complete system.
View attachment 264324

I see it has the ultra rare shutter solenoid triggered from the electrical grip. Very nice.

by now it seems not easy to find Super 90mm lens ***with*** cam, and the 90mm cam by itself still haven't seen one...
i found this post on photonet about homemade cams from aluminium sheet:
https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/horseman-6x9-cams-for-120-and-90mm-lenses.508804/

ic-racer · Jan 23, 2021

Back then the solenoid was not so hard to find either. From what I recall my first rolls were all ever so slightly blurred from the mechanical release (with my thumb). I pretty much went on the internet that day and got a used solenoid right then. The grip, solenoid and extended 15ft elecric release, all like new. Even RadioShack sold the 22v battery. I'm really glad I got all that stuff, as I use that camera a lot. I just got done shooting some Instax with it now.

groundglass back alternative for Horseman 9xx/VH(R) ?

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