Graphic 23 120 Back

davidave · Jun 30, 2010

Can someone define once and for all what the Graphic 23 120 back for Graflex cameras really is?

I've seen it listed for 4x5 cameras, but looking at the pictures it's noticeably smaller than the Riteway 4x5 film holder. Is there a 2x3 version of the Graphic 23?

I've seen it listed as making 6x6 frames on 120 and also 6x9 frames. Are there different masks for the 23?

Thanks in advance

williamtheis · Jun 30, 2010

yes there indeed is a "baby" Graplex... 2x3. uses sheet film (if you can find it) but mainly those 120 RH8/RH6/RH12 (RH=rollholder, followed by the number of exposures on 120)... or 220 rollholder

if you need a picture, I can provide

removed account4 · Jun 30, 2010

there is a ton of info on graflex.org as well

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/accessories.html#RollFilmBacks

davidave · Jun 30, 2010

I saw the graflex.org info but the thing that was confusing was that the different sizes all had the same serial number. This just makes buying off *bay that much more confusing. Somtimes you see 2x3 holders packaged with a 4x5 camera. In the case of the Graphic 23 is there a way to tell
from the outside if it is 4x5 and 6x9?

Wade D · Jul 1, 2010

The Graflex 23 holders for 4x5 have a large flange bigger than the 120 holder itself. The ones for 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 have no large flange and are the same size as the holder. The Graflex 23 holder I have makes negatives that are 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 or 6x8 cm. Most have a knob to wind the film whereas the 6x7 or 6x9 holders have a lever wind which is much faster. There are other variations as well. I am going to use an old 4x5 sheet film holder and adapt the 120 back onto it. Should be a fun project.

2F/2F · Jul 1, 2010

davidave said:
Can someone define once and for all what the Graphic 23 120 back for Graflex cameras really is?

I've seen it listed for 4x5 cameras, but looking at the pictures it's noticeably smaller than the Riteway 4x5 film holder. Is there a 2x3 version of the Graphic 23?

I've seen it listed as making 6x6 frames on 120 and also 6x9 frames. Are there different masks for the 23?

Thanks in advance

The holder itself is always the same. The adapter plate that actually goes onto the camera in place of a film holder varies in size, however. There are 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 versions. There are probably 5x7 versions as well, as there were 5x7 graphics and Linhofs, but I have never seen one myself. You can easily tell the size just by sight, or you can ask for measurements from an Internet seller if you are not sure.

John Koehrer · Jul 1, 2010

You can tell what camera it fits by size, but you need to see the front or ask the seller to determine the negative size.

Jim Noel · Jul 1, 2010

The easy way to determine image size with these is to know the number of frames on the counter.
8 frames = 6x9
10 = 6x7
12 - 6x6

removed account4 · Jul 1, 2010

you could also ask the seller to put
the roll film adapter against a 4x5
film holder to determine it it is for that size
camera, as others have said, the 3x4, and 2x3
cameras' adapters are not as common as the 4x5 ones
and the plate to hold it against the back of the camera
are very small ( barely the size of the roll holder ) ...

as you could see in the graflex.org chart
the 23 negative size varied a little bit but for the most part they were "around" 6x9 ...

good luck !
john

rshepard · Jul 3, 2010

williamtheis said:
uses sheet film (if you can find it)

Freestyle sells sheet film this size. I, too, have one of these Crown Graphics (restored by Fred Lustig in Reno, NV) and I shoot both sheet film and 120 roll film with it. It's a great travel camera.

Rich

Dan Fromm · Jul 4, 2010

Um, there's a little bit of unresolved ambiguity here, much of it due to Folmer & Schwing's (and successors') confusing naming conventions.

OP, when you write "Graflex" do you mean Graflex SLR with Graflex back (one slider, raised ridge at the insertion end of the back) or Graphic (press camera)? If you mean press camera, do you mean press camera with Graphic (also called spring) back, Graflex (see above) back, or Graflok back (two sliders, slot towards the insertion end of the back). With one exception, roll holders that will attach to a Graflex back can't be attached to a Graflok back and vice versa. The exception, quite uncommon, is a '"23" Graflex' holder that will attach to both types. Graphic (spring) backs don't allow easy use of the roll holders Graflex made. Two solutions: for 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graphic backs the appropriate size of Adapt-A-Roll 620, for 4x5 the Calumet C2 or C2N. Busch made a slip-in roll holder that took 120 film for the 2x3 Pressman, which has a spring back; these are very rare, as in if you want one you won't be able to find one.

Versions of these cameras were made with gates 2.25" x 3.25" (2x3), 3.25" x 4.25" (3x4), 4" x 5" (4x5), and 5" x 7" (5x7). Roll holders that accept 120 film were made for 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graflex made cameras with Graflok (usually press cameras) and Graflex (usually SLRs) backs. All have the same carriers, for formats larger than 2x3 the shells are on mounting plates to fit the camera.

Graphic 23 roll holders accept 120 film, shoot 8 frames sized approximately 2.25" x 3.25". Graphic 22 roll holders accept 120 film, shoot 12 frames sized approximately 2.25" x 2.25". All have carriers with knob wind, most have shells without pin rollers at the ends of the gate.

These were replaced by RH-8 (replaces the 23), RH-10 (new idea, 10 2.25" x 2.75" frames), and RH-12 (replaces the 22). Carriers with lever wind, shells with pin rollers at the ends of the gate. Ain't no RH-6. There's also an RH-50 that shoots 2x3 on 70 mm film, fits, IIRC, only the Graflex XL.

Masks? Graflex sold finder masks to suit the lens' focal length and the roll holder's gate. There's a table, mask # given focal length and format, in the RH user's manual, may be posted on www.graflex.org, to which you've already been directed, and on www.southbristolviews.com. Look both places.

Sirius Glass · Jul 4, 2010

Dan Fromm said:
Um, there's a little bit of unresolved ambiguity here, much of it due to Folmer & Schwing's (and successors') confusing naming conventions.

OP, when you write "Graflex" do you mean Graflex SLR with Graflex back (one slider, raised ridge at the insertion end of the back) or Graphic (press camera)? If you mean press camera, do you mean press camera with Graphic (also called spring) back, Graflex (see above) back, or Graflok back (two sliders, slot towards the insertion end of the back). With one exception, roll holders that will attach to a Graflex back can't be attached to a Graflok back and vice versa. The exception, quite uncommon, is a '"23" Graflex' holder that will attach to both types. Graphic (spring) backs don't allow easy use of the roll holders Graflex made. Two solutions: for 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graphic backs the appropriate size of Adapt-A-Roll 620, for 4x5 the Calumet C2 or C2N. Busch made a slip-in roll holder that took 120 film for the 2x3 Pressman, which has a spring back; these are very rare, as in if you want one you won't be able to find one.

Versions of these cameras were made with gates 2.25" x 3.25" (2x3), 3.25" x 4.25" (3x4), 4" x 5" (4x5), and 5" x 7" (5x7). Roll holders that accept 120 film were made for 2x3, 3x4, and 4x5 Graflex made cameras with Graflok (usually press cameras) and Graflex (usually SLRs) backs. All have the same carriers, for formats larger than 2x3 the shells are on mounting plates to fit the camera.

Graphic 23 roll holders accept 120 film, shoot 8 frames sized approximately 2.25" x 3.25". Graphic 22 roll holders accept 120 film, shoot 12 frames sized approximately 2.25" x 2.25". All have carriers with knob wind, most have shells without pin rollers at the ends of the gate.

These were replaced by RH-8 (replaces the 23), RH-10 (new idea, 10 2.25" x 2.75" frames), and RH-12 (replaces the 22). Carriers with lever wind, shells with pin rollers at the ends of the gate. Ain't no RH-6. There's also an RH-50 that shoots 2x3 on 70 mm film, fits, IIRC, only the Graflex XL.

Masks? Graflex sold finder masks to suit the lens' focal length and the roll holder's gate. There's a table, mask # given focal length and format, in the RH user's manual, may be posted on www.graflex.org, to which you've already been directed, and on www.southbristolviews.com. Look both places.

Thank you for removing the dark slide and enlightening us on the roll film backs.

Steve

Josh Harmon · Jul 4, 2010

I use a Graflex 2x3 camera as my main film camera. I have the "23" 120 back which takes 8 6x9's on a 120 roll as well as the (5?) sheet cut film holder.
I use it like a view camera and take off the GG and slide the 120 back on.
Works great for me!

Graphic 23 120 Back

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