Grain.... smooth or crunchy ?

[John Bragg]

I have come to the conclusion that our liking for grain or otherwise is similar to personal tastes in Peanut Butter. Some like smooth and lump free whilst others appreciate the random inclusion of added texture and character. Much depends on how you develop your film of choice. Some developers smooth things out whilst subduing the natural grain of a film and others maintain the natural texture and sharpness inherrent therein. I am a liker of regular sharp unaltered grain and I guess that is why I prefer Tri-X and HP5+ over Tmax and Delta. What is your preferrence and how do you set out to achieve the look that you are after ? Crunchy or smooth ?

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Not grain but acutance... sharp, not mushy.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Some images are enhanced by gain. Then too grain in an image causes the human eye to perceive it as being sharper than a grainless image of the same scene.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I prefer sharpness unless I have intentionally softened the focus.

 

[Nathan King]

If my image must have grain I prefer small, sharply defined grain that gives the appearance of sand. Perhaps that's why I prefer my condenser enlarger?

 

[John Bragg]

If my image must have grain I prefer small, sharply defined grain that gives the appearance of sand. Perhaps that's why I prefer my condenser enlarger?

That is how I like my negatives. I like texture like sugar in the highlights.

 

[cliveh]

I am a liker of regular sharp unaltered grain and I guess that is why I prefer Tri-X and HP5+ over Tmax and Delta. What is your preferrence and how do you set out to achieve the look that you are after ? Crunchy or smooth ?

I understand what you mean and agree, but can you explain why you prefer Tri-X and HP5?

 

[Peltigera]

I like very sharp pictures with a wide range of tones - unless the picture demands grain, then I like it like pebbles.

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[John Bragg]

I understand what you mean and agree, but can you explain why you prefer Tri-X and HP5?

I prefer the look of traditional cubic grain film to tabular grain.

 

[ericdan]

I like the grain I get from Tri-X @800 or 1600 in Microphen.
But Microphen is expensive in Japan. Have to find a cheaper replacement once I run out.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I prefer the look of traditional cubic grain film to tabular grain.

+ 1

 

[Gerald C Koch]

I prefer the look of traditional cubic grain film to tabular grain.

+2 or is it +3

 

[John Bragg]

So how does developer choice add to the mix ? I choose HC-110 Dilution H, a non solvent standard developer for good honest grain.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use replenished XTOL and Rollo Pyro. What is bad dishonest grain? :confused:

 

[John Bragg]

I use replenished XTOL and Rollo Pyro. What is bad dishonest grain? :confused:

Partly dissolved, masked and hidden, along with lost sharpness.

 

[Colin DeWolfe]

It depends on the image. Some images I love Tri-X, some others Ilford Pan-F and Agfa APX 25. It goes to what the image needs.

 

[Ron789]

What sort of grain I prefer? I'm still trying to find out.... but then I'm only a newcomer, I started less then 40 years ago.

 

[nworth]

Although the size of grain is mostly a function of the film itself, the developer affects the look of the grain a lot. The developer also affects the shape of the grains. The affects are often subtle. In general, some developers, like Rodinal, give sharp edged, crunchy grain. Fine grain developers, like D-23, are softer. Dilution changes the results - D-76 undiluted is fairly soft (not quite as soft as D-23), but diluted 1+1, D-76 is less soft, but still not crunchy. Some developers produce a mass of fine strings of silver, others produce little balls. Although you may not be able to see these bits of silver (they are smaller than the grains), they affect the way the picture looks. There doesn't seem to be much information about what different developers do to the grain in various films, but in general, fine grain developers produce softer results and acutance developers tend toward crunchy grain. It may not make as much difference as people think. (Does anyone know of any tests that compare viewer impressions of a film developed in soft and crunchy developers?) What do I prefer? I don't know. With Tri-X, I've been very happy with D-76, and I also like Pyrocat-HD.

 

[ericdan]

What's a Rodinal "crunchy" developer equivalent if you want to shoot Tri-X at 1600?
Rodinal is not very good for pushing, right?

 

[John Bragg]

What's a Rodinal "crunchy" developer equivalent if you want to shoot Tri-X at 1600?
Rodinal is not very good for pushing, right?

Hi Eric, you could try stand developing in Rodinal. I have never attempted it but those who do claim success. Alternatively, you could try brewing your own Microphen substitute and using at 1:3 dilution. I see from your earlier post that Microphen is one of your favorites but is expensive in Japan. Here is a link to a formula for a similar developer if you fancy home brewing.

.http://www.lostlabours.co.uk/photography/formulae/developers/devID68.htm

 

[ericdan]

Interesting idea! Wonder where I would get this stuff from


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[John Bragg]

Interesting idea! Wonder where I would get this stuff from


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These guys deliver worldwide. Not cheap but if you order enough may be economical.

https://www.silverprint.co.uk/

 

[removed account4]

i like them both ...
these days i find photographs without grain to be too clinical for my tastes
clincal is good for some things , and grain is good for others.
i don't mind sensor grain either.

 

[Ashfaque]

I like the grain I get from Tri-X @800 or 1600 in Microphen.
But Microphen is expensive in Japan. Have to find a cheaper replacement once I run out.

Agreed. If possible, you could try making ID-68 as mentioned by John.

According to Ian (lostlabours), it is very similar, if not the same. But don't confuse it with Autophen. It is very similar to ID-68, not identical.

Bests,
Ashfaque

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Try D-72 or Dektol; use 1+3, 1+5 or 1+7 dilutions for variable "crunchiness."