Grain problem with Efke PL50M 4x5?

[trevortrevor]

I am having some grain problems with the Efke PL50M in Rodinal and can't figure out what it could be other than development time and possibly exposure. but the thing is i have nice negatives. full tonal range, detailed shadows and highlights. and they aren't too dense or thin. but the other day i was printing traditionally and noticed a lot of grain. this upset me because first of all its a 4x5 negative and secondly it's 50 speed. i am still relatively new at processing sheet film but have never had a grain problem. prior to this i have only shot 100TMX and HP5+. both over exposed one stop and then underprocessed. as far as data i can provide for my development times I exposed the PL50 at 25 and developed in rodinal 1:50 @ 68 degrees for 8 minutes continuous agitation. I am going to try it in TMAX RS and D-76 just to check it out but any help would be appriciated.
thanks

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Isn't Efke the single layer emulsion film also sold under the Adox name? If so, they caution you strongly against overexposure. This is probably your problem, and unique to these old style single layer Adox style films.

 

[JLP]

Could also be the fact that you have used continuous agitation which is not what makes rodinal look good. (Or the film)
Don't know whether you have used that process before but easy and minimal agitation will look less grainy.
Pyrocat HD, P or MC will work well to if you have access to one of those devs.


jan

 

[KOG]

I tried Efke 50 in Rodinal 1:50 at 8.5 min at 70 degrees F with a lot less agitation, and it was too contrasty and the grain appeared to be as grainy as TMAX 400. I suggest trying a different developer.

Kevin.

 

[Ian Grant]

Your grain might actually be reticulation.

EFKE films are unhardened emulsions, slight variations in temperature between processing steps will cause mild reticulation.

These films are capable of very high quality but do need far more care at the processing stage. I process EFKE films in Pyrocat HD and Xtol (replenished) both give superb results.

Ian

 

[haziz]

Never used Adox/Efke 50 but Adox/Efke PL100 sure is grainy

I have never used the 50 speed film but do occasionally use PL100 in 4x5 (shot at and densitometer tested to be about EI 50) developed in Rodinal 1:50. The negatives and prints show great tonality but two aspects become apparent. The emmulsion sure is delicate. I have managed to scratch it even using a 4x5 daylight tank, and is certainly easy to scratch with tray development. This is also the only time ever I have seen visible grain in an 11x14 print printed full frame from a 4x5 negative. From my experience the PL-100 film has bigger/more visible grain than Ilford HP5+ or Kodak TXP 320!

Sincerely,

Hany.

 

[noseoil]

Stay below 68f for best results with rodinal and smaller grain. Try 1:100, longer development time and slow things down a bit with less agitation. tim

 

[trevortrevor]

awesome. thanks all for the tips. it also came to my mind that since it is an older emulsion it has clumpier grain than the modern films and i think that is what i was seeing a lot.

 

[trevortrevor]

Stay below 68f for best results with rodinal and smaller grain. Try 1:100, longer development time and slow things down a bit with less agitation.

what would you recommend for development times and agitation methods?

 

[Ian Grant]

One of the characteristics of milder reticulation is clumping of the grain. Often this is attributed incorrectly to the developer, however it can happen even with modern film if the temperature differances between chemicals is not kept within tight blimits, one or two degrees centigrade (celsius).

Ian

awesome. thanks all for the tips. it also came to my mind that since it is an older emulsion it has clumpier grain than the modern films and i think that is what i was seeing a lot.

 

[P C Headland]

what would you recommend for development times and agitation methods?

Try 1+100 for 18-20 minutes with 5 inversions each minute for the first three minutes, then one inversion every three minutes, at 20C.

Alternatively, 1+100 for 1 hour at 20C. Agitate gently for first minute then leave alone for a further 59 minutes.

Water stop, fix as usual.

Both of these work well for me either with roll film (Efke 25/50/100) or sheet film (Efke 25/100). The sheet film I do in a double 120 tank using the taco method. In all cases I shoot at box speed.

Hope this helps.