Grain Focus

CMoore · Oct 5, 2019

I have two of those...are they called Micro Sight... grain focus tools.
I have a smallish one, made of plastic from Paterson.
None of them were what i would call "Expensive".

But some brands ARE what i would call expensive.
Is there really that much difference between different styles of these things, that would merit spending "A Lot" of money on one.?
Thank You

M Carter · Oct 5, 2019

The more expensive ones are usually the Micromega-style, that have a long mirror with a door covering it, and an eyepiece that tilts to view along the length of the mirror. Those are the "see into the corners" style, which allow you to check the focus towards the edges of the print. So you can tell if you have an enlarger alignment problem or a negative popping issue. In the US, those tend to go from $100-$200. They're very handy for making bigger prints, where alignment can become an issue. But since I got a laser alignment tool, I rarely use mine, sometimes just to re-assure myself that the alignment is good.

The Peak 20x is really handy, but you should be able to fine one of those for $20 or so. There are tons of grain focusers out there used.

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2019

The small Paterson is very easy to use but goes dark soon as you move off center. So you often can’t check the part of the picture you want to verify. The long mirror type are nicer in that respect. You can check any random spot.

CMoore · Oct 5, 2019

#2..... #3..... I See
Thank You

Malcolm Stewart · Oct 5, 2019

M Carter said:
The more expensive ones are usually the Micromega-style, that have a long mirror with a door covering it, and an eyepiece that tilts to view along the length of the mirror...

My "used" Micromega grain focuser was supplied with the mirror glass mounted the wrong way up, thereby defeating its purpose.... Fortunately I was able to check it against my Patersons.

Mick Fagan · Oct 5, 2019

If you are wishing to do extremely accurate focusing or wish to do big enlargements, then one of the Peak grain focusers is certainly going to make a difference. While I have a couple of Patterson units and one or two other brands, the Peak No. 1 unit stands head and shoulders above all of them.

The longer mirror allows you to get further away from the centre of the negative to check critical off centre focus. Having your enlarger perfectly aligned also makes a big difference, reducing your need to check grain focus at the extremes.

That said, they all focus on the grain and do the same job.

I myself have the one with the largest mirror, Peak 1, which also has a mirror cover to keep dust and other stuff away from the mirror surface. This is a dream to use, I first encountered this unit when working in an industrial photo-lab 30+ years ago..

Life is really much better with any of their models, but really good with the No. 1 unit.

https://www.peakoptics.com/images/pdf/PeakFocuser.pdf

Mick.

mshchem · Oct 6, 2019

If I really want to see grain from medium format negatives I need to get out the micromega, modern film is nearly grain free until you really go for blow ups.

MattKing · Oct 6, 2019

I have a few different ones, including the intriguing "Hocus Focus" which offers the functionality of permitting checking into the corners, but isn't particularly suited to my needs, because I need to use my left hand to hold it, and I can't really operate the focus controls on my D6 with my right hand.
One of my other focus aids doesn't have the refinement of the Peak or Micromega, but does offer one feature that makes it very desirable - it is much taller than the others.
If you do large enlargements, you will understand that advantage.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 6, 2019

M Carter said:
The more expensive ones are usually the Micromega-style, that have a long mirror with a door covering it, and an eyepiece that tilts to view along the length of the mirror. Those are the "see into the corners" style, which allow you to check the focus towards the edges of the print. So you can tell if you have an enlarger alignment problem or a negative popping issue. In the US, those tend to go from $100-$200. They're very handy for making bigger prints, where alignment can become an issue. But since I got a laser alignment tool, I rarely use mine, sometimes just to re-assure myself that the alignment is good.

The Peak 20x is really handy, but you should be able to fine one of those for $20 or so. There are tons of grain focusers out there used.

+1

DREW WILEY · Oct 6, 2019

You get what you pay for. I've seen cheap magnifiers shimmed on the base with cardboard, which can change thickness and hence plane of focus with humidity shifts. I'm down to exactly one grain magnifier, and it's the best - the Peak Critical Focus magnifier with the tilting head. Worth every penny. Not only do the crisp optics make critical focus easier, but you can compare enlarging lens performance right out to the corners of the projected image, or level things in the enlarger more critically than using just a level. A somewhat taller unit wouldn't help me much. One of my enlargers is 14ft tall.

jvo · Oct 9, 2019

i've understood there are grain focusers and grain magnifiers... by brand i don't know which is which.

i stumbled onto a grain magnifier 30 odd years ago and don't know the brand. it does magnify, and work at the edges of the paper, although not to the extreme. it has no identification but looks like a large bestwell.

pentaxuser · Oct 9, 2019

jvo said:
i've understood there are grain focusers and grain magnifiers... by brand i don't know which is which.

.

Are these not one and the same thing in that a grain focuser has to magnify the grain so that you can focus on it?

pentaxuser

RalphLambrecht · Oct 9, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Are these not one and the same thing in that a grain focuser has to magnify the grain so that you can focus on it?

pentaxuser

exactly

Patrick Robert James · Oct 9, 2019

I have a few. The first one I bought when I started was a Paterson. It worked ok. Then later I bought a Microsight and used that for years. Better than the Paterson. I still use it occasionally. One of the best tools I ever bought for photography though was the Micromega Koana which is a Peak now. Like Drew mentioned above, you can see the quality of the lens through it. Chromatic aberrations show up too. I don't use it for the corners though since i align everything with a laser, so there really isn't a need unless I am seeing how a lens performs in the corners. Not all lenses are created equal of course.

Sirius Glass · Oct 9, 2019

I have used several inexpensive grain focusers that cannot begin to compete with the more expensive ones.

pentaxuser · Oct 9, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
I have used several inexpensive grain focusers that cannot begin to compete with the more expensive ones.

Does the Paterson come into this category of inexpensive grain focuser and if so then apart from only being able to be used in the central portion of the negative projection are there other ways in which it fails to match the Peak? Solely in respect of grain it does seem to be able to magnify and focus on the negative grain 100%, that is to say to an extent that I have difficulty imagining how much clearer the grain could be with any other grain focuser

Thanks

pentaxuser

Mick Fagan · Oct 9, 2019

pentaxuser said:
Does the Paterson come into this category of inexpensive grain focuser and if so then apart from only being able to be used in the central portion of the negative projection are there other ways in which it fails to match the Peak? Solely in respect of grain it does seem to be able to magnify and focus on the negative grain 100%, that is to say to an extent that I have difficulty imagining how much clearer the grain could be with any other grain focuser

Thanks

pentaxuser

The clarity difference is near to being unbelievable, simple as that really.

They both do the same job, just as a pair of run of the mill binoculars will compared to expensive binocular glass. Put your run of the mill binocular unit alongside a high end Leica binocular unit and the difference is also astounding. I know this as I purchased a high end Leica binocular unit 6 years ago in Germany. Comparing those to my other travel binocular unit (which was not shabby) is really a case of chalk and cheese.

Mick.

pentaxuser · Oct 10, 2019

Mick I think you are saying that the clarity in the Peak is a quantum leap beyond that provided by the Paterson but my experience of the Paterson is that it enables the grain to be seen in very sharp focus and I am at a loss to work out how much clearer it is possible to make the grain. Whilst I appreciate your analogy with binoculars my experience here is that yes cheap binoculars do not resolve the scene being looked with the same clarity but the kind of resolution faults that there are in cheap binoculars do not appear to affect the Paterson micro grain focuser where it is possible to get the grain sharp.

That isn't to say that the Peak may not be better made and its ability for corner focus compared to the Paterson is indisputable but once grain is sharp then it can't be any sharper can it? Is it your contention that what appears sharp with a Paterson is not in fact sharp? In other words are you saying if I get the grain sharp with a Paterson then put a Peak on the same negative the grain will be revealed as less sharp than it appeared and really requires me to tweak the bellows knob

In other words there is a demonstrable difference?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Oct 10, 2019

pentaxuser said:
In other words there is a demonstrable difference?

Uh, yes.

cowanw · Oct 10, 2019

However whether the difference is seen in prints being unfocused when using instruments other than Peak grain focusers is one valid end point. Sharp prints can be made using many different focusing techniques. After all most of us will have focussed the camera without grain focusers. And as I age I have found that my best and easiest results come from the lowly Magnasight.

Sirius Glass · Oct 10, 2019

cowanw said:
However whether the difference is seen in prints being unfocused when using instruments other than Peak grain focusers is one valid end point. Sharp prints can be made using many different focusing techniques. After all most of us will have focussed the camera without grain focusers. And as I age I have found that my best and easiest results come from the lowly Magnasight.

I do not know about you, but I use grain focusers when I am printing using an enlarger. I have never used a grain focuser while taking photographs.

MattKing · Oct 10, 2019

If you have ever tried to use an inexpensive grain focuser with a medium format, moderate or low ISO colour negative, you will know why the Peak and other high end magnifiers are preferred!
I like the combination of a Magnasight to get things close, plus a higher power unit for the difficult ones.

Pieter12 · Oct 10, 2019

Interestingly, the Peak is a 10X magnifier while the Micro Sight is 25X.

cowanw · Oct 10, 2019

Sirius Glass said:
I do not know about you, but I use grain focusers when I am printing using an enlarger. I have never used a grain focuser while taking photographs.

I am sorry. I guess I was not as clear as I might have been, but thanks for responding. What I meant to say was that if a person could focus a camera unaided that it was likely they could focus an enlarger without having to use only the very best aid.

jim10219 · Oct 10, 2019

My eyesight is good enough I don't really need any grain focuser. Though I still use a cheap (well, it wasn't cheap back in it's day, but it's old and not worth much now) grain focuser to double check everything, but for the most part, I can tell if something it out of focus without one. I also use a laser alignment tool to keep my enlarger aligned. For me, there's no need for a more expensive grain focuser. In fact, in my case checking the corners is a waste of time that increases the odds that I'll overheat and pop the negative, and have to wait longer for it to cool back down.

But it's certainly a useful tool for some people. But I'll be honest, the only reason I even use one is because people keep giving them to me and telling me that I need to use one. They've put enough doubt in my mind that I use it to double check, not so much to ensure I'm actually in focus, but to eliminate that voice of doubt.

But hey, everyone is different. And as long as what you have works, then you're not missing out on anything. And if it doesn't work, then that's the time to consider an upgrade.

Grain Focus

CMoore

M Carter

Bill Burk

CMoore

Malcolm Stewart

Mick Fagan

mshchem

MattKing

Moderator

RalphLambrecht

DREW WILEY

jvo

pentaxuser

RalphLambrecht

Patrick Robert James

Sirius Glass

pentaxuser

Mick Fagan

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass

cowanw

Sirius Glass

MattKing

Moderator

Pieter12

cowanw

jim10219

Grain Focus

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