Grain Focus and TMX

Kilgallb · Mar 27, 2022

I shoot 4x5 with TMX-100. I have tried to use a Paterson grain focus tool. For the life of me, I cannot see the grain.

Do others have the same issue? Or is it possible my focus tool is kaput?

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 27, 2022

Even for the maximum size print?? Have you stuck in a non tabular film to see if it's not your grain focuser?

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

I don’t see it either, for tmx developed in xtol 1:1

i focus on dust that’s on the film lol

Kilgallb · Mar 27, 2022

NB23 said:
I don’t see it either, for tmx developed in xtol 1:1

i focus on dust that’s on the film lol

I set the image size then pull the negative and replace it with a blank film with holes made with a hole punch and a set of scratches to focus with the eye.

Kilgallb · Mar 27, 2022

Andrew O'Neill said:
Even for the maximum size print?? Have you stuck in a non tabular film to see if it's not your grain focuser?

All I shoot is TMX 100 and Ektar 100.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

Kilgallb said:
I set the image size then pull the negative and replace it with a blank film with holes made with a hole punch and a set of scratches to focus with the eye.

Good idea. Also, make sure the blank frame is from the same film. When I switch from fomapan 400 to tmx (happens a lot these days) the focus is never the same. Thickness of film.

But then Why not move the film and use the sprocket hole as a focus marker? This would seem to be the ideal solution. Thanks for the idea

whojammyflip · Mar 27, 2022

I have a Bestwell Microsight, which has a 25x magnification. Its pretty good for seeing the grain. But even then, I still find the grain with either TMX or TMY and XTOL to be very fine even with 35mm enlarged 10x, ie an overall magnification in the retina of 250x. You almost need a split screen in the carrier.

MattKing · Mar 27, 2022

With 120 TMX, I use the grain focuser to focus on elements in the image. If there is an in focus edge in that image, you can sometimes see some grain on that edge.
I also use high magnification reading glasses to first get the entire image as close to in focus as possible, before employing the grain focuser.
I too use a Bestwell unit, so it may very well be better than the Paterson one.

Don_ih · Mar 27, 2022

NB23 said:
When I switch from fomapan 400 to tmx (happens a lot these days) the focus is never the same. Thickness of film.

Odd, because the emulsion is at the same elevation.

I only don't see grain in Tmax if it's thin. I like more aggressive development.

gone · Mar 27, 2022

I never had any luck using grain to focus on. It's there of course, I shoot Tri-X and Foma 100 developed in Rodinal. But it's much easier for me to use the focus scope or a 135mm camera lens and look for a high contrast area. Then I focus until it's sharp, just like you would w/ a camera's focus screen. The prints are nice and sharp, they have to be. If it's sharp in the focus scope or 135mm camera lens, then the print will always be sharp.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

Don Heisz said:
Odd, because the emulsion is at the same elevation.

I only don't see grain in Tmax if it's thin. I like more aggressive development.

yes odd, but there it is: i always have to refocus when i switch between foma 400 and tmx.

Sirius Glass · Mar 27, 2022

I use an edge or an object. Then it is much easier to focus on tabular grain.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

Well, actually, Is it really? Foma400 has no ant halation layer, and is thinner. I know that once the film is flat it is flat, but there is a huge difference in grain and layer technology between Kodak film, its T grain and foma’s old simple cubic grain.
There is a focus shift for sure.

Don_ih · Mar 27, 2022

NB23 said:
Well, actually, Is it really? Foma400 has no ant halation layer, and is thinner. I know that once the film is flat it is flat, but there is a huge difference in grain and layer technology between Kodak film, its T grain and foma’s old simple cubic grain.
There is a focus shift for sure.

Emulsion-side down. You wouldn't be able to measure the difference in thickness between different emulsions. I'm not denying that it happens, though, because I've noticed it, too. In my case, it was between some Ilford film and Rollei Superpan. It's still odd.

MattKing · Mar 27, 2022

NB23 said:
Well, actually, Is it really? Foma400 has no ant halation layer, and is thinner. I know that once the film is flat it is flat, but there is a huge difference in grain and layer technology between Kodak film, its T grain and foma’s old simple cubic grain.
There is a focus shift for sure.

The difference can't be more than the relative distance between the thicknesses of the two different emulsions - probably less than any amount you can reasonably adjust on the enlarger.
Perhaps the lack of anti-halation and other differences affects how the grain focuser images the image.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

Yes, very probable.
Or the grain in tmx + xtol1:1 is so small that I’m grossly misfocusing it, which really shows when compared to foma... but mind you, the prints come out acceptable, therefore I can’t
say its misfocused per se.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 27, 2022

Kilgallb said:
I shoot 4x5 with TMX-100. I have tried to use a Paterson grain focus tool. For the life of me, I cannot see the grain.

Do others have the same issue? Or is it possible my focus tool is kaput?

with my 20x focuser ,I can just about see it but. it explains why TMX never seems quite sharp. I guess, You can't have it al.

beemermark · Mar 27, 2022

You need grain to see it. Shoot a roll of something like TRX-400 pushed to 1600 in V76 and focus on that.

NB23 · Mar 27, 2022

beemermark said:
You need grain to see it. Shoot a roll of something like TRX-400 pushed to 1600 in V76 and focus on that.

indeed. The main reason why I switched to ilfosol-3 whenever TMX is in question. Major upgrade.

Arthurwg · Mar 27, 2022

Yes, I can't see the grain with TMX either.

mshchem · Mar 27, 2022

MODERN PROBLEMS

!

Ian C · Mar 28, 2022

TMX grain is very fine. Even with a good magnifier, a large negative, such as 4” x 5”, results in very small grain as presented to the eye by the magnifier.

The grain is easiest to see with the aperture on the enlarger lens closed at least one stop. This seems to give me the greatest contrast in the grain itself when viewed with my Bestwell 25X magnifier. The best practice is to close down to the aperture at which you print and then use the magnifier.

One way to overcome the problem is to choose a different target. Instead of focusing on the grain, focus on some small detail with strong contrast, such as a dark detail against a much lighter background. For example, you could focus on the junction between a shadow (light on the negative) and a white area (nearly black on the negative). This is as accurate as using the grain as a focusing target and can be much easier to see.

Those of us that used the now-discontinued Kodak Technical Pan film had an even harder time seeing its grain, as it was finer than that of TMX, especially with 4” x 5” or larger film.

Hilo · Mar 29, 2022

Kilgallb said:
I shoot 4x5 with TMX-100. I have tried to use a Paterson grain focus tool. For the life of me, I cannot see the grain.

Do others have the same issue? Or is it possible my focus tool is kaput?

First, what size were you going to print? If very small I am not surprised you see no grain. Set your enlarger as if you're going to print 16x20in and do open the lens. First check in the middle of your image. Then move your focuser to a corner. Do not place it on what will be black in the print.

Second, which light source do you use? A condenser head will probably show more grain. Here I am unsure, as I only use condenser heads. I use a 150w opal bulb. Grain is more visible than with the 75w opal bulb.

Third, consider buying a Peak focuser. No need to go for the most expensive one. The middle one, I believe that's the Peak II, is already much better than most other grain focusers.

Last, when checking grain, it helps to shut off the darkroom lights. My timers, the Kearsarge 301, do that automatically.

bernard_L · Mar 29, 2022

NB23 said:
When I switch from fomapan 400 to tmx (happens a lot these days) the focus is never the same. Thickness of film.

Don Heisz said:
Odd, because the emulsion is at the same elevation.

MattKing said:
The difference can't be more than the relative distance between the thicknesses of the two different emulsions - probably less than any amount you can reasonably adjust on the enlarger.
Perhaps the lack of anti-halation and other differences affects how the grain focuser images the image.

Different film curvature might be the explanation, if the OP uses a glassless carrier.

Grain Focus and TMX

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