Grain Alert! Delata 3200 in Rodinal

[sly]

I bought Delta 3200 in 35mm, as the store was out of TMax3200, which I've used before. I thought they'd be pretty similar. I developed in Rodinal 1:50. The negs are grainier than my TMax3200 in Tmax developer ones. (I'm out of the TMax developer).

Is there a better developer? I know they'll be grainy, but a bit less would be nice.

Attached is a 1/5th and about 1/20th crop from a Delta 3200 neg.

Thanks everybody

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

What is your agitation cycle and temp ? I use Rodinal 1:25 and have less grain with a pinhole than you.

 

[kodachrome64]

There are many less grainy developers. Just about all of them, lol. XTOL would be a good fine-grain developer.

 

[Alex Bishop-Thorpe]

I can vouch for Delta 3200 in Xtol, even at 6400EI the results were good to my eye. Still grainy (35mm), but good. I haven't used Rodinal with anything faster than APX400, personally.

 

[Phillip P. Dimor]

I can't help much as I usually push Tri-X to 1000 and 1600 max, developed with either Acufine (EI 1000) or Microphen (EI1000 to 1600).. I get grain either way. One way I cope with this is to print smaller. 5x7's from a 645 negative are absolutely snappy..

Also, when enlarging. I like to take a soft-focus filter (my favorite for this being a Canon Softar 1 and 2) and expose the paper normally for 1/2 to 3/4ths the required time and use the soft-focus filter under the lens for the remainder. It gives a good look and i've used it more than a few times printing extremely grainy foma 400 negatives.

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

I've developed it in Tmax developer with nice results. It is sharper and slightly grainier than Tmax 3200 when both films are done with Tmax Developer. This shot was done on the 120 size Delta 3200

 

[Removed Account]

If you're out of anything else I have a bottle of Ilfotec HC kicking around which you're welcome to! The Malaspina (VIU now, I guess) book store also stocks bottles of Ilfotec DD-X, which I believe is designed to work with the Delta films. That's a local option if you don't mind paying their relatively high prices.

On another note, where did you find Delta 3200 locally? I know we don't have it at work and I'd love to shoot another roll!

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Check out Guilllaume's prints in the galleries for good results with Delta 3200!
Personally I really really like it developed in Ilfotec DD-X. If you shoot the film at ISO 3200, you develop it according to Ilford's recommendations at 6400. Works like a charm. See attached from a 645 negative. (Printed almost full frame on Fotokemika Emaks Grade 2 in Weston's Amidol)
- Thomas

 

[titrisol]

yes, that is what Rodinal does, specially fi you scan the negatives.... pop-corn-grain.
You'll see a lot less grain in real printing.

D76, Tmax, Xtol and DDX are way better. I settled with DDX and D3200, great results.

 

[mario Ag+]

Use Ilford DDX. It works well with delta 3200.

 

[pcyco]

hallo

emofin should also do a good work
---------------
thomas

 

[fschifano]

Well, the two films are similar in that they are both "super speed" films. There are differences though and of the two, I'm more partial to the Delta 3200. As for developers, I've no complaints using XTOL for either film. D-76 works very well for both too, and should be easy (and inexpensive) to source just about anywhere.

 

[Colin Corneau]

Thomas, that shot is gorgeous. Chris Crawford's is a beaut, too.

I was always under the impression that Rodinal is a relatively grainy developer, and this confirms it.

 

[Mark Antony]

Normally to compare apples with apples you'd need Delta 3200 in DDX/Microphen.
Rodinal is not first choice for pushing fast film and Delta 3200 is really a 1000 ISO film you can expose at EI 3200.
I have a test here:
Delta 3200 test

I use it at EI 12,500 and sometimes 25,000 in Microphen 25 mins (in 120 only)
Delta at 25,000

 

[pentaxuser]

Sly. It's a propos that you have posted this. I have developed another person's D3200 at EI 3200 in 35mm in Perceptol for 18 mins as per the Ilford instructions. Grain was considerably less than in ID11. At that time I hadn't used DDX which seems the most versatile developer with D3200 in terms of film speed. I have since used DDX. In fact it's now my first choice but I have never tried it with D3200. Looking at other films I have used it with, I'd say it is finer grained than ID11

I have read as many of the threads as I can find on D3200 but there seems to be few users of Perceptol and D3200 combination. Anyway this time I used D3200 myself, rated at EI1600 but used the development time for EI3200. Well not quite, to be honest. I reduced it by a minute to 17 mins and looking at the negs, I don't think I should have. In fact I suspect that even 18 mins isn't quite long enough.

My prints were all 5x8 but on some negs I printed only part of the neg so it was the equivalent of about 8x10 and the grain is as well tamed as I think you will get.

However it would be useful to get the experience of anyone who has used both Perceptol and DDX for a grain comparison and the benefit of a time for Perceptol at EI 3200.

Times start to get pretty long with Perceptol and I suspect that it "runs out of steam" beyond EI3200 unlike DDX but I don't know. I do know that if Perceptol was capable of developing at beyond EI 3200 then I'd use it despite the long dev times unless there was clear user evidence that DDX grain was very similar.

I am looking for fast speed and minimum grain as I think the OP is and will pay the required price for this in terms of developer used ( I use it at stock solution) in terms of cost and time.

So. anyone with experience of D3200 at EI 3200 in 35mm and using Perceptol and hopefully who may also have used DDX and can give a comparison?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[poutnik]

Normally to compare apples with apples you'd need Delta 3200 in DDX/Microphen.
Rodinal is not first choice for pushing fast film and Delta 3200 is really a 1000 ISO film you can expose at EI 3200.
I have a test here:
Delta 3200 test

I use it at EI 12,500 and sometimes 25,000 in Microphen 25 mins (in 120 only)
Delta at 25,000

Mark, what agitation routine do you use with Microphen/Delta 3200? Those shots you present are pretty impressive...

I've only developed Delta 3200 in Fomadon R09 (a bit grainier version of Rodinal) and was not that impressed (although it was not bad, it was usable). Also, have you tried pushing HP5+?

Thanks

 

[Mark Antony]

Jiri
Remember those are 120 film shot in a 6x6 camera. I have shot some at EI 3200 with a Fuji 6x7 RF and it's pretty good I feel:

My agitation for the Microphen is normally continuos first 30 sec then two per min thereafter.
When I rated it at EI25,000 I used 25 min and at EI12,800 18 min in stock solution.
Normally I meter for shadow detail then stop down 2 stops, but my spot meter only goes to 6400 so I need to stop down more.
Hope this helps.
I must stress again this is 120 film, if you shoot 35mm those EI ratings are gonna give you grain, when I use 35mm delta I normally rate 1000-1600 and my developer of choice is Microphen, although DDX would be better/just as good (but I don't use it due to cost)
Mark

 

[2F/2F]

You are used to T-Max 3200 in T-Max developer, if I understood your post correctly. Rodinal is a more grainy developer, as you have discovered. Your pix will appear sharper at first glance and from a distance, but when you get close, you can see that the sharpness comes from the graininess.

At any rate, while Delta 3200 may be a little more grainy than T-Max 3200, I would say it is your change in developer that caused it, as opposed to the change in films. I have never really messed with the T-Max (just shot it once when Delta was not available), so I don't really know, but I have done tons of shooting - and testing - with Delta 3200. I have everything worked out with it in both Ilford HC and D-19. The best way to get crazy grain with it is via overexposure.

All this being said, your pix don't look that grainy to me. HP5 and Tri-X seem grainier than that in certain cases.

 

[poutnik]

Mark, thanks a lot. I do remember it's 120. I'm also shooting rolls, with 6x9cm Fuji RF...

Thanks, I'll try it too with Microphen and use your times as starting points.

 

[Mark Antony]

Then you'll be fine!
BTW the image I posted and everything in this gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/mark_antony/bo_nanafana_social_club&page=all
Were shot using Delta 3200 on my Fuji RF then processed in Rodinal 1:25 for 12 mins

BTW where about in the Czech Republic are you? Its one country I really want to visit once my kids get a little older, my best mate married a Czech girl and tells me its a lovely country
Mark

 

[Larry.Manuel]

One More Vote for DD-X with Delta 3200.

Yes, I've caused significant grain in Delta 3200 using Rodinal. Now, I'm a happy DD-X user, for everything. It seems to produce finer grain to my neophyte's eyes.

DD-X can be used somewhat economically by developing 5 films from a one liter batch of 1+4 dilution. 200 ml of DD-X + 800 ml of water, pour the developer back into the main vessel after each film, and add 10% to the developing time for each subsequent film. See DD-X info sheets.

 

[Robert Budding]

Anyone here tried XTOL and Delta 3200?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I have tried Xtol with Delta 3200. I think it hides the grain in a funky way. DD-X produces a negative that looks sharper to my eyes. But I'm probably nitpicking. It's great for enhancing the speed, though.
- Thomas

 

[poutnik]

...
BTW where about in the Czech Republic are you? Its one country I really want to visit once my kids get a little older, my best mate married a Czech girl and tells me its a lovely country
Mark

Mark, I'm based in Brno (second largest city, eastern part called "Morava", around 100km north of Wien). Have a look at my website on my blog, several past posts present the country around this city. I currently have a project photographing this part of our country, will put it as a presentation on my website in around a month...

You are welcome should you have any specific questions, I'll try to answer them.

Jiri

 

[Klopstock]

Anyone here tried XTOL and Delta 3200?

Yes, very good combo. I had to use that when I ran out of Tmax 3200. Dilute it, that wll enhance shadow detail, especially with these films.

Souping a 21st century 3200 ASA film in 19th century Rodinal... high five for grain! It seems almost incredible that a modern film survives such a drastic treatment, even Caffenol will be better for such films... well, Caffenol is better than Rodinal for almost all kinds of film.