Graflex Users Workshop Proposal later this summer in Tonopah Nevada

GKC · Jan 15, 2022

According to this article, faster shutter speeds may be needed to capture the Lartigue effect
https://www.graflexparts.com/retrographic
1/1000 should be within a healthy stock Graflex focal plane shutters capabilities.

Sirius Glass · Jan 15, 2022

GKC said:
According to this article, faster shutter speeds may be needed to capture the Lartigue effect
https://www.graflexparts.com/retrographic
1/1000 should be within a healthy stock Graflex focal plane shutters capabilities.

"So what's up with the shutter, why is it such a big deal? 'Retro' isn't just an aesthetic, it's meant to signal that the curtain operates directly opposite to that of a traditional Speed Graphic shutter. Instead of starting with the largest (slowest) aperture and winding to the smallest (fastest) as on normal Graflex, these new shutters start with an incredibly small aperture then wind up to the largest aperture. This offers a few odd benefits, largely allowing the fastest aperture to shoot at 1/1000s-1/1500s between tensions 1 and 6. Additionally it creates a wonderful Lartigue Effect/Rolling shutter effect when used on low tension on the fastest two apertures. This means objects in motion will lean in the direction they are moving, although this effect disappears at high tension.

The inclusion of this effect is both an artistic choice and a slight homage to what Jacques Lartigue had been seeking. Earlier in his career, he had modified a Graflex SLR to have a smaller aperture slit while simultaneously slowing the shutters movement in order to capture dramatic movement in his work. His photography from that era (circa 1913) is known for featuring passing race-cars with oval shaped wheels leaning in the direction of the movement. Using an SLR, he was able to accurately pan the camera which causes the background to lean in the opposite direction."

I see that I made the mistake of using the highest tension. The thicken plots!

GKC · Jan 15, 2022

GKC said:
According to this article, faster shutter speeds may be needed to capture the Lartigue effect
https://www.graflexparts.com/retrographic
1/1000 should be within a healthy stock Graflex focal plane shutters capabilities.

Of course the SUV in the photo has nowhere near the same panache as a Model A Roadster going full oval

GKC · Jan 17, 2022

I dug out my copy of Graflex Graphic Photography to see what advice Messrs. Morgan and Lester might offer.

GKC · Jan 20, 2022

I wonder if O. Winston Link ever got locomotive wheels to go oval?

abruzzi · Jan 20, 2022

I wonder how fast the car would have to be going to get oval wheels on my Nikkormat with its vertical travel shutter?

Sirius Glass · Jan 20, 2022

GKC said:
I wonder if O. Winston Link ever got locomotive wheels to go oval?

I found his museum by accident and was blown away by what I saw. I have several of his books. Oval wheels? That would be great.

grat · Jan 20, 2022

abruzzi said:
I wonder how fast the car would have to be going to get oval wheels on my Nikkormat with its vertical travel shutter?

Looks like a fairly standard 3 leaf shutter. It's very fast to open, stays open, and then closes-- there is no slit traveling across the film plane, which is what creates the rolling shutter effect. I think all you'd get is motion blur.

AnselMortensen · Jan 20, 2022

Yup.
I tried that with 35mm shooting a mountain biker in action. No dice. Just motion blur.

GKC · Jan 20, 2022

grat said:
Looks like a fairly standard 3 leaf shutter. It's very fast to open, stays open, and then closes-- there is no slit traveling across the film plane, which is what creates the rolling shutter effect. I think all you'd get is motion blur.

Or get a Graflex!

abruzzi · Jan 21, 2022

grat said:
Looks like a fairly standard 3 leaf shutter. It's very fast to open, stays open, and then closes-- there is no slit traveling across the film plane, which is what creates the rolling shutter effect. I think all you'd get is motion blur.

You must be looking at a different Nikkornat than I am--copal square shutter, vertical travel, 1/125 flash speed:

https://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm/part5.htm

GKC · Jan 21, 2022

abruzzi said:
You must be looking at a different Nikkornat than I am--copal square shutter, vertical travel, 1/125 flash speed:

https://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm/part5.htm

But is there a slit? It appears that the oval wheels and leaning crowd happens
when consecutive horizontal strata of the emulsion receives exposure as the moving subject passes the camera being panned in the direction of travel..

grat · Jan 21, 2022

abruzzi said:
You must be looking at a different Nikkornat than I am--copal square shutter, vertical travel, 1/125 flash speed:

https://mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonfmseries/fm/part5.htm

No-- While I was looking at the FT3 (same site), rather than the FM, and I probably should have said "three blade"-- it still looks like the "standard" square shutter design, give or take a bit-- all three (or 5 for the FM front curtain) blades travel the same direction when the shutter is tripped (down, usually), and very fast (under 7ms).

Regardless, there is still no slit that travels-- there is a window that expands downwards, and contracts upwards.

abruzzi · Jan 21, 2022

I'm 99% sure there is a moving slit. I don't have access to the references listed in the wikipedia page to confirm accuracy, but this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal-plane_shutter

Specifically cite the the minimum moving slit as 1.7mm for 1/2000 shutter speed:

As perfected in 1965 by Copal, the Copal Square's slit traversed the 24 mm high film gate in 7 ms[53] (3.4 m/s). This doubled flash X-sync speed to 1/125 s. In addition, a minimum 1.7 mm wide slit would double top shutter speed to a maximum 1/2000 s. Note, most Squares were derated to 1/1000 s in the interest of reliability.[54]

My understanding is that while it is metal bladed, and travels vertically, it still functions the same as a cloth horizontal travel shutter. Are you saying it works in some other way?

GKC · Jan 23, 2022

Apparently Nevada is holding a rehearsal for the event:
https://kmph.com/news/local/earthquake-reported-near-mina-nevada

Sirius Glass · Jan 23, 2022

GKC said:
Apparently Nevada is holding a rehearsal for the event:
https://kmph.com/news/local/earthquake-reported-near-mina-nevada

Earthquakes are not all they are cracked up to be. They really do not move me much, but they do shake off the dust and loose particles. Consider them good vibrations.

grat · Jan 23, 2022

So... you're saying they have faults?

Sirius Glass · Jan 23, 2022

grat said:
So... you're saying they have faults?

Yes and some of them run deep.

GKC · Jan 23, 2022

grat said:
So... you're saying they have faults?

I see what you did there!

jimgalli · Jan 25, 2022

Copal square shutters in Nikons have a slit effect once you pass the flash sync speed. Flash sync is the fastest speed that the square area is completely open. After the sync speed the effective slit gets smaller and smaller.

about 3 minutes in.

GKC · Jan 25, 2022

That's really cool!

serouscam · Jul 16, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
I am interested. I have to take out my Graflex Model D which shamefully has not been used for years and take it for a drive up there to meet you.

There is no Model D, it is called Series D

btaylor · Jul 16, 2022

Ack, I wouldn’t have remembered Mr. Galli’s proposal for the meetup if serouscam hadn’t bumped the thread with yet another correction to the Graflex Series D nomenclature.
Looks like it didn’t happen, but it sure sounded like a lot of fun. What do you say, Jim? Reschedule?

Sirius Glass · Jul 16, 2022

btaylor said:
Ack, I wouldn’t have remembered Mr. Galli’s proposal for the meetup if serouscam hadn’t bumped the thread with yet another correction to the Graflex Series D nomenclature.
Looks like it didn’t happen, but it sure sounded like a lot of fun. What do you say, Jim? Reschedule?

I held my breath until I turned blue. When that did not work I just gave up.

jimgalli · Jul 28, 2022

Summer took a funny turn and I'm helping friends with the electrical wiring in a dream workshop. All new construction. The cameras have been languishing and for the life of me I can't seem to work up much enthusiasm right this minute. I'm 70 in less than a month, so maybe this is it? Can't seem to remember why I'm supposed to take pictures and what to take a picture of.

Graflex Users Workshop Proposal later this summer in Tonopah Nevada

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