Graflex Crown Graphic

Quincy · May 22, 2011

Hi,

i want buy this camera cgi.ebay.pl/Graflex-Crown-Graphic-/380314781601?pt=DE_Alte_Kameras&hash=item588c8707a1 . I have two question about it:

1. this is only 6x9 format or i can do 4x5 too?
2. i don't want use sheet films so i want buy rollkasete, cgi.ebay.pl/GRAFLEX-XL-6x9-120-Back-/370292797127?pt=UK_Photography_Film_Backs_Holders&hash=item56372baec7 this one will be good for that graflex?

Sirius Glass · May 22, 2011

this is only 6x9 format or i can do 4x5 too?

Only 6x9

Steve

bdial · May 22, 2011

The camera is what is sometimes known as a "baby" graphic, in this case a Crown Graphic. It is 6x9 only. It does have a Grafloc back though which would allow the use of the roll holder.
The sheet film spring back is removed, and the roll holder fitted in its place.

Jose LS Gil · May 29, 2011

Actually, the image size is smaller than a 6X9cm. It is closer to a 6X7.5cm size.

You can usually find a 4X5 press type camera for close the same price as the mini graphics. You can also find a wider variety of lenses and accessories for the 4X5.

k_jupiter · Jun 1, 2011

Jose LS Gil said:
You can usually find a 4X5 press type camera for close the same price as the mini graphics. You can also find a wider variety of lenses and accessories for the 4X5.

Like what?

tim in san jose

Jose LS Gil · Jun 1, 2011

k_jupiter said:
Like what?

tim in san jose

Lenses and lens boards for the 4X5 press cameras are much easier to find than the mini graphics.
Film holders are much easier to find for the 4X5 and you can still find them new. I can't really recall seeing a new 2X3 film holder.
My mini has a 101mm lens with a very small lens board. If I wanted to use a larger lens, I would run into problems with the small lens board.
You also have a wider variety of films available in 4X5 than in 2X3 or 23 size.
Don't get me wrong, the mini is a cool camera but it is really closer to a medium format camera, than a large format camera.
If I was limited on space, such as when you are hiking, I would opt to carry one of my old 6X9 folders, before I would choose the mini.

Sirius Glass · Jun 1, 2011

A good source of information about Speed Graphics and Crown Graphics is www.graflex.org.

Steve

Dan Fromm · Jun 1, 2011

Jose LS Gil said:
Lenses and lens boards for the 4X5 press cameras are much easier to find than the mini graphics.

It isn't a Miniature Speed Graphic, it is a 2x3 Pacemaker Crown Graphic. New reproduction boards that work very well are available from www.mpex.com and www.skgrimes.com

Film holders are much easier to find for the 4X5 and you can still find them new. I can't really recall seeing a new 2X3 film holder.

The camera has a Graflok, also called international, back. It will accept any 2x3 (in metric, 6x9) roll holder that will attach to a Graflok. Think 120 film, not sheet.

My mini has a 101mm lens with a very small lens board. If I wanted to use a larger lens, I would run into problems with the small lens board.

Wrong camera, Jose. I use lenses whose rear cells are too large to pass through my 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics' front standards. The trick is to unscrew the lens' rear cell from the shutter, attach the board with shutter and front cell to the front standard, remove the focusing panel, and reattach the rear cell from behind. This won't work with all lenses, e.g., most 210/5.6 Plasmats and the 53/4.5 Biogon. But it does work with 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon and 58/5.6 Grandagon.

You also have a wider variety of films available in 4X5 than in 2X3 or 23 size.

More emulsions in 4x5 sheet film than in 120? Are you sure?

Quincy, the price is much too high. Even if you're in Euroland you should be able to find a better deal on ebay.com.

drumminor2nd · Jun 1, 2011

Dan Fromm said:
More emulsions in 4x5 sheet film than in 120? Are you sure?

I think he means 2x3 sheet film, which is what the camera was designed for. Sure, it will use a 120 roll film back, but 2x3 sheet film is what it was designed for. I'm willing to bet there are far more 4x5 films available than 2x3 sheet films. Been the truth for quite some time (my old Modern Photography mags from the mid 80s bear this out).

So there, you're both right

k_jupiter · Jun 2, 2011

drumminor2nd said:
I think he means 2x3 sheet film, which is what the camera was designed for. Sure, it will use a 120 roll film back, but 2x3 sheet film is what it was designed for. I'm willing to bet there are far more 4x5 films available than 2x3 sheet films. Been the truth for quite some time (my old Modern Photography mags from the mid 80s bear this out).

So there, you're both right

To be honest, it was designed for either one. That's why you have a graflok back on it. That's why you have a range finder on it. Way more 120 film types available than 4x5 sheet.

As far as lens? How many do you need? a 65, 101 (or so), a 135 fuji, and a 150 Fuji. All will fit that lens board size with the appropriate sized hole. As far a new 2x3 holders, picked up a half dozen three or four years ago.. in boxes with instruction papers intact. How many do you need? And there are millions of them out there in perfectly usable shape.

A non-issue. A red herring. A delusional falsity. And the Crown 2x3 is plastic so it's pretty light. Not a whole lot heavier than my rb67. If at all.

tim in san jose

mopar_guy · Jun 2, 2011

k_jupiter said:
To be honest, it was designed for either one. That's why you have a graflok back on it. That's why you have a range finder on it. Way more 120 film types available than 4x5 sheet.

As far as lens? How many do you need? a 65, 101 (or so), a 135 fuji, and a 150 Fuji. All will fit that lens board size with the appropriate sized hole. As far a new 2x3 holders, picked up a half dozen three or four years ago.. in boxes with instruction papers intact. How many do you need? And there are millions of them out there in perfectly usable shape.

A non-issue. A red herring. A delusional falsity. And the Crown 2x3 is plastic so it's pretty light. Not a whole lot heavier than my rb67. If at all.

tim in san jose

The Crown Graphic is made of wood and covered in leather. The Century Graphic is made with a plastic body.

k_jupiter · Jun 4, 2011

mopar_guy said:
The Crown Graphic is made of wood and covered in leather. The Century Graphic is made with a plastic body.

I appreciate your astute observation. And how do you know that camera is not a Century? They both used the same lens board.

tim in san jose

Dan Fromm · Jun 4, 2011

Tim, it is 2x3 Pacemaker Crown. The first post in this thread says it is on eBay, 380314781601. Go look. One of the marks of the Century is no body shutter release. 380314781601 has one.

This is what you get for not reading the thread from the first post before responding.

Cheers,

Dan

k_jupiter · Jun 5, 2011

Dan Fromm said:
Tim, it is 2x3 Pacemaker Crown. The first post in this thread says it is on eBay, 380314781601. Go look. One of the marks of the Century is no body shutter release. 380314781601 has one.

This is what you get for not reading the thread from the first post before responding.

Cheers,

Dan

Excuse me for breathing Dan. I read it from the start. Just because an EBay ad says it is something doesn't make it so. Some of us who do know a fair amount about Graphics are not quite as up to date with your minute trivia knowledge of Crowns and Speeds. Spare the barb and just answer the freaking question.

You just took one step down from the exalted position of knowledge I had set you upon. Maybe that's a good thing.

tim in san jose

Dan Fromm · Jun 5, 2011

Tim, as you well know I'm often mistaken.

Now take a look at the image in the listing. You're right that text in ebay listings often, um, misleads but the image, if it is of the camera on offer, is pretty conclusive.

Cheers,

Dan

Sirius Glass · Jun 5, 2011

Dan Fromm said:
Tim, as you well know I'm often mistaken.

I, on the other hand, have never been wrong, except for the time I thought that I was wrong and it turned out in the end I was right.

Steve

Matthew Rusbarsky · Jun 6, 2011

mopar_guy said:
The Crown Graphic is made of wood and covered in leather. The Century Graphic is made with a plastic body.

It's not plastic, It's mahoganite! Which is, um, kind of like plastic but much more luxurious.

Jose LS Gil said:
Actually, the image size is smaller than a 6X9cm. It is closer to a 6X7.5cm size.

Can this be correct? Rollfilm backs for the Baby Graflexes were made for 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9. So the 6x9 backs only give you an extra .5cm? Seems to me the "23" gives a 6x8 negative, while the later RH8 is 6x9. Does this work out differently in practice?

Dan Fromm · Jun 6, 2011

The actual gate sizes are very close to 2.25" x 2.25" (56 mm x 56 mm, by convention rounded to 6 cm x 6 cm), 2.25" x 2.75" (56 mm x 68 mm, rounded to 6 cm x 7 cm), and 2.25" x 3.25" (56 mm x 82 mm, rounded to 6 cm x 9 cm).

The RH-8 has pin rollers at the long ends of the gate, gives slightly shorter frames than earlier Graphic 23 roll holders without the pin rollers. 56 x 78, more or less. RH-10 and RH-12 holders also have the pin rollers and so do late Graphic 23s. The rollers are said to improve film flatness. Haven't checked that m'self.

The metric sizes 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 are sloppy approximations to the actual sizes. Same goes for 6x12 (56x112).

Matthew Rusbarsky · Jun 6, 2011

Dan Fromm said:
The RH-8 has pin rollers at the long ends of the gate, gives slightly shorter frames than earlier Graphic 23 roll holders without the pin rollers. 56 x 78, more or less. RH-10 and RH-12 holders also have the pin rollers and so do late Graphic 23s. The rollers are said to improve film flatness.

Have you noticed an actual difference on your negatives? I ask because I'm trying to trade my way to a baby speed, and I'm trying with the tough stuff first. I already have a graflok back (hope it will fit), next on the list are the roll film holders. The RH's seem to command a premium. I'm curious if that is driven by internet wisdom only.

darinwc · Jun 6, 2011

Matt, are you in the US?
I have a pre-anniversary 2x3 speed you are welcome to have for shipping.
Kinda ugly, but it may work for you or even just for parts.

I may have a extra roll film back I could sell on the cheap. Let me know

Matthew Rusbarsky · Jun 7, 2011

darinwc-PM sent. Let me know what you are interested in I would be more than happy to reciprocate.

Graflex Crown Graphic

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency