Graflex 2X3 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 ?

OptiKen · Jan 5, 2016

I know it's kind of a silly question, but a number of Graflex Jr and cameras are listed as 2x3 format. Is that really 2" X 3" or is it 2 1/4" x 3 1/4"?

Dan Fromm · Jan 5, 2016

2x3 is shorthand for 2.25" x 3.25". So is 6x9. Many see the format as medium format or, as I once put it, on the cusp between medium and large format.

Paul Howell · Jan 5, 2016

I check and found the manual on line, listed as 2 1/4 by 3 1/4 sheet film, I assume that there is roll film back as well that would the same.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2016

For a short time I had a 1919 3 1/4" x 4 1/4" Revolving Back Graflex with the ski jump front. I was difficult to get the film. I never used it because the shutter was unstable and I returned it. Selling off the film and film holders was a pain.

Dan Fromm · Jan 5, 2016

PDH said:
I check and found the manual on line, listed as 2 1/4 by 3 1/4 sheet film, I assume that there is roll film back as well that would the same.

There's quite a variety of roll holders for 2x3 cameras. There's no real standard for 2x3 roll film and gate lengths vary considerably. The shortest I know -- I have a couple -- are made by Graflex and have pin rollers at the end of the gate. 78 mm. The longest I know -- I have one -- is the Linhof Super Rollex. 84 mm. Now that I've exposed my ignorance, I expect that someone will tell us about one with a longer gate.

aoresteen · Jan 5, 2016

6x9 in Europe means 6.5cm x 9cm which is larger than 2.25" x 3.25". We tend to use it to mean 2x3 but it isn't the same.

Dan Fromm · Jan 5, 2016

aoresteen said:
6x9 in Europe means 6.5cm x 9cm which is larger than 2.25" x 3.25". We tend to use it to mean 2x3 but it isn't the same.

Tony, you're confusing a sheet film format (6.5x9) with a roll film format (6x9). 6.5x9 is larger.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2016

6x9 is one size and 2 1/4" x 3 1/4" is another size.

Dan Fromm · Jan 5, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
6x9 is one size and 2 1/4" x 3 1/4" is another size.

Why do you believe this?

6 cm <> 2.25" and 9 cm <> 3.25" is not an acceptable answer.

Dan Fromm · Jan 5, 2016

See p. 7 of linhof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Technikardan_e.pdf

Grab some nominal 6x9 roll holders and measure their gates.

And then consider that you may be mistaken when you think that 6x9 and 2x3 aren't the same format with different names.

michr · Jan 5, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
Why do you believe this?

6 cm <> 2.25" and 9 cm <> 3.25" is not an acceptable answer.

I've heard, and while I have a box of 2.25 x 3.25 sheet film I haven't confirmed it, that the sheet film is a different size than roll film. I suppose the width is what is being talked about, since the length is rather arbitrary.

Arklatexian · Jan 6, 2016

Graflex 2x3 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4?

Sirius Glass said:
6x9 is one size and 2 1/4" x 3 1/4" is another size.

Sirius Glass, I am sure that you (and most others in MF/LF) know this, but at one time, every "complete" darkroom, working with 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film cameras, needed three negative carriers for their enlargers, i.e. sheet film, film pack film, and rollfilm back film. All three had different dimensions. For 4x5 cameras, you needed at least two, i.e. negative carriers for sheet film negatives and for film-pack negatives for the same reason. As you said, 6 x 9 was a different size film entirely as was 9 x 12. Probably needed multiple carriers for each of those also. The first time I tried to use a 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film negative in a 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 roll film negative carrier, it "fell through". Lots of "mount-board" emergency negative carriers made in those days.......Regards!

RSalles · Jan 6, 2016

Sirius Glass said:
6x9 is one size and 2 1/4" x 3 1/4" is another size.

I can positively confirm that. I use sheet film in the Miniature Speed Graphic, which sheet film holders gets 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 film size, and a number of Singer Graflex roll film holders, two of them 6x9. It's different size, 6X9 being larger in width when putting a negative over the other. Even the negative carriers have different width, not being interchangeable and having different part numbers. I was forced to acquire a 2 1/3 X 3 1/4 negative carrier even having the 6x9 because the negative fitted loose, being smaller,

Cheers,

Renato

Sirius Glass · Jan 6, 2016

OK I must have forgotten what I was typing about. I have had problems with cameras that were 2"x3" and trying to use 120 film which is 2.25" wide.

Ian Grant · Jan 6, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
See p. 7 of linhof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Technikardan_e.pdf

Grab some nominal 6x9 roll holders and measure their gates.

And then consider that you may be mistaken when you think that 6x9 and 2x3 aren't the same format with different names.

My experience is the same as Dan's I have quite a few 6x9 and 2¼x3¼ cameras and roll film backs, the format is identical but the film gates vary depending on the manufacturer.

6.5x9 cm camera are quite different designed for plate or cut film holders for that format but they'll usually accept a 6x9 roll film holder usually Rollex or Rada.

Ian

aoresteen · Jan 7, 2016

Dan Fromm said:
Tony, you're confusing a sheet film format (6.5x9) with a roll film format (6x9). 6.5x9 is larger.

No, not really Dan. When I lived in Germany I asked for 6x9 sheet film meaning 2.25 x 3.25 but they just assumed I meant 6.5 x 9 cm. So I got sheet film that would not fit my SFHs . It's just their sizing norms and conventions.

Graflex 2X3 or 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 ?

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