Graded paper? Why is it still used?

kobaltus · Oct 18, 2016

I am a big fan of Ilford papers. In RC department, their old ilfospeed RC graded paper was excellent paper with great tonality and sharpness. Now, RC multigrade papers has ugly bluish tone and poor tonality. And you must watch this paper under 90 % angle like cheap monitors. But the RC papers of others – Foma are even worse.

Old_Dick · Oct 18, 2016

My guess is, not all graded are really the same. The contrast of Ilford grade 2 is not necessarily the same as Slavich grade 2. I would really love to hear from those in the know. Being on fixed income makes it difficult to buy the wrong grade Back in the 70's I used Ilfobrom semi-matte grade 3.

Svenedin · Oct 18, 2016

kobaltus said:
I am a big fan of Ilford papers. In RC department, their old ilfospeed RC graded paper was excellent paper with great tonality and sharpness. Now, RC multigrade papers has ugly bluish tone and poor tonality. And you must watch this paper under 90 % angle like cheap monitors. But the RC papers of others – Foma are even worse.

I just ordered some Ilfospeed RC. It is still made but only in grades 2 and 3.

flavio81 · Oct 18, 2016

This is one of the reasons:

tedr1 said:
One of the factors is the shape of the tone-curve, the relationship of optical density in the print versus density in the negative, this is a curve having a several different slopes and it affects how the dark and light regions are distinguished. The curves for graded and MG papers are not identical, this can be shown by measurement and also by seeing, once you know what to look for.

MG papers are not going to perform as well at some contrast grades.

And also, as noted, there is a loss of speed sometimes.

miha · Oct 18, 2016

Which is a moot point since there a many more grades available with present MG papers.
That said I still miss EMAKS.

kobaltus · Oct 18, 2016

Svenedin said:
I just ordered some Ilfospeed RC. It is still made but only in grades 2 and 3.

It is old stock, but for sure better than new RC multigrade. I prefer grade 2.
On grade 3 you can downsize gradation with using color-mg enlarger.

Thomas Bertilsson · Oct 18, 2016

I haven't had time to read the whole thread yet, but for me the Kentmere Bromide was a paper I had pretty much settled on when they announced its discontinuance. I so loved using it.

The reason it worked so well for me was because of using Pyrocat-MC (or -HD, or -P or whatever version you like) film developer. Graded papers are sensitive to different range of light than VC paper, meaning they react differently to negatives processed in a staining developer than MC does. The contrast I got with those negs on Kentmere Bromide was absolutely excellent. I miss that a lot, and may investigate the few graded papers that are left, just for fun some day, to reprint those old negatives.

DREW WILEY · Oct 18, 2016

Ilfobrom Galerie has a tiny bit of dry-down shift. It's an exaggeration to say "none". All other Ilford papers have shift more during drying. Regardless, I always review my prints not only after they are fully toned and fully dry, but ideally a week later, when my eyes are well rested.
Since I own several enlargers, I might leave the neg in one of them for the next printing session, just in case I want to fine-tune an image even
more after evaluating prints from the previous session. With rare exceptions, I've never purchased anything other than Grade 3 paper in any brand.
Most of my work is on sheet film and predictably exposed and developed. With small film cameras, however, there is often an oddball exposure on
any given role that benefits from the greater flexibility of VC paper. But each specific type of paper seems to have its own personality anyway, in
terms of what images best work with it, or how it specifically tones, and so forth. But I'll always be glad I learned on classic graded papers first.

Svenedin · Oct 18, 2016

kobaltus said:
It is old stock, but for sure better than new RC multigrade. I prefer grade 2.
On grade 3 you can downsize gradation with using color-mg enlarger.

Is it old stock? I understood all the other grades were withdrawn except 2 and 3 in limited sizes.

jim appleyard · Oct 18, 2016

I miss Luminos single weight Grade 3! It was pretty darn good for a cheap paper!

joshua029 · Oct 19, 2016

I mostly use graded paper, 2 I'm pretty sure.. But it's used to keep contrast a little lower for bromoils and because it's not super coated for bromoils.

Also, bromoilista is dead...

kobaltus · Oct 19, 2016

Svenedin said:
Is it old stock? I understood all the other grades were withdrawn except 2 and 3 in limited sizes.

I agree, my mistake, probably Ilford still produce some limited edition of that paper, but it is very hard to get it outside the GB.

Leigh B · Oct 19, 2016

Svenedin said:
Is it old stock? I understood all the other grades were withdrawn except 2 and 3 in limited sizes.

Both Freestyle and B&H offer a large number of sizes/surfaces in grade 4.

- Leigh

Svenedin · Oct 19, 2016

kobaltus said:
I agree, my mistake, probably Ilford still produce some limited edition of that paper, but it is very hard to get it outside the GB.

In the U.K. I use this supplier.

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/picture-making/-bw-darkroom-paper/bw-graded-paper/c319

pdeeh · Oct 19, 2016

jnanian said:
a print is a print. and at a certain point it is just bragging rights to say what you made it with.

How dare you, john?
I suppose next you'll be telling us that it doesn't matter what camera you use!

kobaltus · Oct 19, 2016

Svenedin said:
In the U.K. I use this supplier.

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/picture-making/-bw-darkroom-paper/bw-graded-paper/c319

It will be mine, too. Thanks.

Svenedin · Oct 19, 2016

kobaltus said:
It will be mine, too. Thanks.

Glad to help! There are other suppliers but these guys have the best prices I have found for the Ilfospeed paper. They are more expensive on some other things so I shop around. They are run by knowledgeable and helpful film enthusiasts. The chap I deal with is called Rodney Bates.

Svenedin · Oct 20, 2016

My Ilfospeed graded 2 and 3 paper arrived today. Spent a pleasant evening in the darkroom printing some shots taken on my 1935 Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta (6x4.5, Ilford HP5+).

Prints turned out nicely and easily. All on grade 2. I do like watching the print exposing in white light and not a nasty coloured filter. Took me back to printing at school aged about 14. Just seemed so much simpler. I just have never really liked multigrade and use it under sufferance. Probably my imagination but the prints seemed sharper than on multigrade (same surface, pearl).

DREW WILEY · Oct 20, 2016

Sometimes silver-rich glossy papers can have almost a 3D effect to them - certainly not holographic, but a little something extra. I've often seen it
in old graded Brilliant Bromide, and now in MGWT. The type of gelatin is also a factor, but apparently not the hypothetical distinction between graded
and VC. Or a synonym for this would be to call rich emulsions expensive, and they always have been.

Svenedin · Oct 20, 2016

There certainly is a difference. I was hunting for a particular negative earlier. It is from a photo taken 25 years ago. As I looked at the sheets of negatives with the contact sheets I made on graded paper I couldn't help but think, "these are so much better, so much sharper". I wondered whether I was jut a better printer back in the first flush of youth and now I have lost it! Then I made some new prints on graded paper and was satisfied that in fact it is actually the paper.

I will probably do some comparison prints Ilfospeed vs MGIV. My testing has suggested that Ilfospeed grade 2 is 1/4 stop faster on my equipment (than MGIV with a grade 2 filter). I haven't done any side by side comparisons in daylight (because it's dark now) but the Ilfospeed prints look warmer on initial inspection.

Graded paper? Why is it still used?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency