Got Table Saw Skills?

Greg_E · Jul 20, 2008

Barry,

Thanks. The chop saw is just going to be for crude cutting, I'll clean up the edges of the metal on my milling machine. At the price if it saves the time and energy spent with a hacksaw, it will be worth the price. However I do expect it to die a quick death (back to the hacksaw), and I'm only going to work aluminum with a little bit of stainless rod (4mm diameter). At the price it is simply and experiment to see just how bad it really is.

I did get to look at the table saw, it did look extremely cheesy, but cute at the same time. I hear good things about the MicroLux saws. I've also considered building a table saw out something like a Ryobi 4 inch portable circular saw. The circ saw I have in the kit of 18 volt tools actually has put up with a bunch of hard work for me, so it might make a decent table saw with the correct AC power supply.

richard ide · Jul 20, 2008

Greg,

If you are cutting round stock on your saw, hold the end with a pair of visegrips or you may get a nasty blade destroying spin.

Greg_E · Jul 20, 2008

Thanks, I will be cutting a little bit of 4mm and 8mm stainless, I expect to snap a few blades on that stuff. I also ordered some 3 inch abrasive blades to see if they will fit (they were cheap). The arbor is the same size, so it is a calculated risk. Mostly it will be cutting aluminum bar (6061) up to about 3/8 thick. They claim the accuracy will be so good that I can cut right to the dimension that I need, I expect I'll need to finish mill about 1/16 off the ends to true them up.

Barry S · Jul 20, 2008

I was thinking of buying one of those Harbor Freight table saws, but after some quick googling--it seems like a lot of them burn out easily or arrive broken. I found a decent rated, but inexpensive 10" table saw--the Ryobi BTS10S.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100058430

I don't expect wonders for $99, but it seems like it might be handy for light large format cutting needs--lensboards and the like. Is a 10" saw too large for cutting lensboards and other small pieces?

Greg_E · Jul 20, 2008

No, it should be fine for that. Get a good blade to achieve the best results.

Barry S · Jul 20, 2008

Greg_E said:
No, it should be fine for that. Get a good blade to achieve the best results.

Thanks. What kind of blade would you suggest? I'd like to start off cutting up some baltic birch plywood for lensboards. Any specific brands, number of teeth, etc?

Fotoguy20d · Jul 21, 2008

Barry S said:
Thanks. What kind of blade would you suggest? I'd like to start off cutting up some baltic birch plywood for lensboards. Any specific brands, number of teeth, etc?

I'm partial to Freud Diablo blades but any decent carbide tipped blade will be fine. For a 10" blade you want 40 teeth minimum. 80 will give a little bit smoother cut but you can achieve that with a little sandpaper too.

bdial · Jul 21, 2008

I've done well by my Forrest blade, but I also like my Freud thin-kerf blade. A blade dampener is helpful too, especially on cheap saws; http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.com/category_8_Dampeners_Stiffeners.html

Fotoguy20d · Jul 21, 2008

Barry S said:
I was thinking of buying one of those Harbor Freight table saws, but after some quick googling--it seems like a lot of them burn out easily or arrive broken. I found a decent rated, but inexpensive 10" table saw--the Ryobi BTS10S.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100058430

I don't expect wonders for $99, but it seems like it might be handy for light large format cutting needs--lensboards and the like. Is a 10" saw too large for cutting lensboards and other small pieces?

Barry,

I have the Ryobi saw. It's pretty good for the money. Take some time in putting it together and make sure everything is properly aligned and tightened. Warning - the fence doesn't always rack properly and settle in parallel to the blade, particularly if it's well off parallel when you go to tighten it down. I find I need to push on the back of the fence as well as sliding by the front or it binds up in back. The 24T blade it comes with is okay for ripping 2x4s but I wouldn't use it for thin plywood such as for a lensboard. I haven't used this saw for lensboards - on my first go round I use my 10" miter saw and last time I used a 8" Hitachi sliding miter saw - now I want one of those.

Dan

Barry S · Jul 21, 2008

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm off to Home Depot tonight to take a look at the Ryobi and their selection of blades.

barryjyoung · Jul 21, 2008

Greg_E said:
Thanks, I will be cutting a little bit of 4mm and 8mm stainless, I expect to snap a few blades on that stuff. I also ordered some 3 inch abrasive blades to see if they will fit (they were cheap). The arbor is the same size, so it is a calculated risk. Mostly it will be cutting aluminum bar (6061) up to about 3/8 thick. They claim the accuracy will be so good that I can cut right to the dimension that I need, I expect I'll need to finish mill about 1/16 off the ends to true them up.

Better than vise grips is an inverted drill press vise. The aluminum should cause no problem with your saw blade but I would not suggest trying to cut that stainless rod on a table saw.

barryjyoung · Jul 21, 2008

Barry S said:
Thanks. What kind of blade would you suggest? I'd like to start off cutting up some baltic birch plywood for lensboards. Any specific brands, number of teeth, etc?

Hi Barry:

I swear by the 80 tooth Freud Diablo that Home Depot sells for about $50. They last a long time and make fantastic cuts. I have used Forrest, DeWalt, Amana and even $300 SystiMatic blades and the Diablo blades are as good as any of them. The kerf is rather thin compared to a Forrest Woodworker II blade that I have, so you waste less material and need less horsepower. They are ideal for lesser powered saws like the Ryobi. Look at the Ryobi BT3200 saw. It is only $300 and it is excellent. Before we bought our cabinetmakers saw we used a BT3200 for everything we do here at the factory. Some jobs were actually easier because of the sliding table. Wish we had the room to run both saws. It was hard to sell that saw to make room.

Barry S · Jul 21, 2008

Sounds like the recommendations for the Freud Diablo blades are unanimous here. I think the 80 tooth blade is probably what I'm looking for to cut relatively thin birch plywood, while leaving a clean edge. I know the BT3200 has a very solid reputation, but for the amount of work I'll be doing, the less expensive Ryobi will probably be fine. Remember--this is what I'm getting instead of the Harbor Freight saw.

Greg_E · Jul 21, 2008

I've got to try the stainless on that little cut-off saw. I know it is going to rip all the teeth off the blade, but I just have to try it. I'll make sure I have plenty of hack saw blades on hand, and safetly glasses for the attempt. HF claims it will cut steel, so I've got to try it. Would be nice if they had a 2 inch abrasive blade to go with it, then there wouldn't be a problem. I do hope the 3 inch abrasive blades will fit (or can be made to fit), then I would have no worries about the stainless rod.

barryjyoung · Jul 21, 2008

Barry S said:
Sounds like the recommendations for the Freud Diablo blades are unanimous here. I think the 80 tooth blade is probably what I'm look for to cut relatively thin birch plywood, while leaving a clean edge. I know the BT3200 has a very solid reputation, but for the amount of work I'll be doing, the less expensive Ryobi will probably be fine. Remember--this is what I'm getting instead of the Harbor Freight saw.

Point taken on the economics of the situation. Feel free to email me if I can help you with any problems. Have fun with the saw. You cannot go wrong with the Diablo 80 tooth blade. The Diablo dado set is also excellent.

Barry S · Jul 22, 2008

Thanks Barry, I'm sure I'll have some questions. I got the Ryobi and the Diablo blade last night. I had to hunt down the blade at another store, and it's one scary looking tool. Diablo is right--that blade is the devil--red with razor sharp teeth. I'm going over my safety precautions, so I don't have to ask about using a Deardorff one-handed. Should I always use a "pusher" when cutting fairly small stock like lensboards?

Fotoguy20d · Jul 22, 2008

Barry S said:
Should I always use a "pusher" when cutting fairly small stock like lensboards?

That's an emphatic yes. And use the blade guard, PITA that it is. Be very sure the guard mount is properly aligned with the blade.

Barry S · Jul 22, 2008

Thanks Dan. I'm going to take my time--as you suggested with assembling and aligning the saw, and will make sure I have my safety glasses and pusher before I do any cutting.

barryjyoung · Jul 22, 2008

Barry S said:
Thanks Barry, I'm sure I'll have some questions. I got the Ryobi and the Diablo blade last night. I had to hunt down the blade at another store, and it's one scary looking tool. Diablo is right--that blade is the devil--red with razor sharp teeth. I'm going over my safety precautions, so I don't have to ask about using a Deardorff one-handed. Should I always use a "pusher" when cutting fairly small stock like lensboards?

Hi Barry:

Always use a push stick. I suggest making your own rather than buying one or using a piece of scrap. The kind I find most useful at the tablesaw are like this http://www.knottyplans.com/index.php?page=20042
because they hold the work down on the table as well as push it through the blade. The hole in the handle is not necessary.

Now that you have a saw and good blade, please take the time to follow all of the alignment procedures in your Ryobi handbook. Doing things like getting the tabletop aligned with the miter gage slots and the rip fence aligned with the blade will not only make it easier to make better cuts, they will make the saw safer to use. Proper alignmemt is the key to avoiding kickback. The following page covers saw alignment basics. http://www.newwoodworker.com/dilindjiguse.html

The number one consideration when using your new saw should be safety. A moments inattention at the saw can make your life much harder. Safety does not happen by accident. Here is a great list of safety procedures. http://www.woodworkersguide.com/2008/05/05/table-saw-safety-is-serious-business/

Good luck with the new machine and please let me know if I can help in any way.

richard ide · Jul 22, 2008

Regarding Kickback:

I once cut a piece of wood that I knew I should not. One piece stuck into a concrete block wall.

Always SAFETY FIRST.

Barry S · Jul 26, 2008

Success! I cut some lensboards today and everything went smoothly. I carefully assembled and aligned the saw, and made sure I had safety glasses and a pusher. That Diablo blade cut through the Baltic Birch plywood beautifully and left a super clean edge. Wonder of wonders--the boards precisely fit the width of my Deardorff front standard and they're square. I just have to figure out a good way to radius the corners and maybe a better way of drilling out the boards than using a keyhole saw. I still need to work on smooth movements and hand positioning when using the saw, but I tried to be safe using the pusher and not standing directly behind the wood. Thanks Dan and Barry for your help.

bdial · Jul 27, 2008

Sandpaper will work to radius the corners, you don't need to remove very much material, so it will go faster than you might think. Start with a medium sort of grit, say 120 or 150, then move up to 320 or 400 to finish it off.

Fotoguy20d · Jul 27, 2008

Barry,

Glad to hear it's working out well.

Harbor Freight sells a cheap ($50 or less) drill press. You can also pick up a set of their Forstner bits (TiN coated) for around $25. They have a bunch of different sets with varying differences between sizes. Mine has 1/8" difference in the sizes of interest. I drill from the back so I can also put in a large counterbore for the retaining ring. They also have a 1-5" diameter adjustable cutter for wood and plastic - cost me $6 I think - I have yet to try it out.

Dan

Greg_E · Jul 27, 2008

I have one of those drill presses... The thing is not very acurate with small holes. There is too much movement in the system to allow the drill to stay on target, even if you center punch the work. Might be OK for the larger holes you are talking about, as long as plus or minus about 1mm in centering is good enough.

I just bought the HF micro mill/drill and a bunch of tooling, hopefully it will be a little bit better after I get it all tuned up.

rwyoung · Aug 10, 2008

barryjyoung said:
Now that you have a saw and good blade, please take the time to follow all of the alignment procedures in your Ryobi handbook. Doing things like getting the tabletop aligned with the miter gage slots and the rip fence aligned with the blade will not only make it easier to make better cuts, they will make the saw safer to use. Proper alignmemt is the key to avoiding kickback.

Pulled the trigger on purchasing a tablesaw because my list of camera re-build projects as well as darkroom construction (standard cabinets just won't cut it for height/depth) and other home improvement stuff has finally reached a critical mass.

Did the assembly last night on a Ridgid TS3660 and finished off with the blade less than 0.001" out of parallel, the rip fence adjusted for a smidgeon less than 1/32" heel out at the back of blade, rip fence adjusted for vertical and the 0/45 blade angle stops set. Also aligned the splitter (I'll be shopping for an aftermarket or figuring out how to fabricate one, the stock one is a piece of crap).

Too late for test cuts last night so I'll do a few test rips on some 2x4 and then re-check alignments to see how it is holding.

So, can I save all the sawdust and make my own MDF (just kidding :rolleyes.

Got Table Saw Skills?

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