Goodbye Rollei, Hello Mamiya

marcmarc · Jul 12, 2017

So the Rolleicord that was gifted to me last year and that required almost $300 in work to bring back into usable condition is once again in need of more work. I'm getting intermittent blank frames (one on each of the two rolls I shot last week) as well as some frame overlaps. I'm just not going to put anymore money into this camera, especially if it's going to be a regular thing which is usually the case whenever I begin to use cameras of such age. I'm finding that with the money I'd probably have to spend on it again, I could get a Mamiya C330 and in the process get a newer TLR that offers interchangeable lenses and bellows focusing. I'm no stranger to Mamiya, I've used an RZ67 ProII for years. However, I really fell in love with using a TLR so I've decided to keep an eye out for a C330 S (the last model made by Mamiya) or the previous F model of which there seems to be many more floating around then the S. Unfortunately the only Mamiya trained tech in my area retired years ago so I have no one to bring any C330 I buy to be checked out. Jimmy was wonderful in checking out my RZ lenses and bodies as I purchased them. I've been checking ebay and many for sale there are from Japan which would make returning the camera if it's a lemon a major hassle. I'll just have to patiently wait for one to turn up locally.

MattKing · Jul 13, 2017

Don't ignore the "plain" C330. Functionally speaking, it offers just about everything that the two more recent versions do.
Mine has worked well since I acquired it 40 or so years ago from the store I worked in at the time - it was the store demonstrator.
In early years it was my main camera for wedding work.
The body and viewing system has required only a very minor amount of maintenance. Over the years, the lenses I have had have only once require anything more than infrequent maintenance.
It (along with accessory prism finder) is shown in this self-portrait I took in 2009:

chip j · Jul 13, 2017

Mamiya TLR lenses aren't very Sharp--they were designed for portaits. I had 6 of them in almost every focal length. The chrome lenses are sharper (I have the finest, sharpest 35mm enlargers & lenses, so maybe the comparison to Mamiya TLR negs wasn't quite fair to Mamiya).

BAC1967 · Jul 13, 2017

I love my C3 but I get more use out of my Rolleiflex. I'm sure the C330 is lighter than the C3 but for portability and ease of use I think the Rolleiflex is better. Maybe your camera was a lemon.

Fixcinater · Jul 13, 2017

chip j said:
Mamiya TLR lenses aren't very Sharp--they were designed for portaits. I had 6 of them in almost every focal length. The chrome lenses are sharper (I have the finest, sharpest 35mm enlargers & lenses, so maybe the comparison to Mamiya TLR negs wasn't quite fair to Mamiya).

I mean, they're sharp as in well resolving, they are just not terribly high in contrast/acutance so they don't scream sharpness. Similar to the early Leica (resolution) vs Zeiss (higher contrast) comparisons.

Wouldn't you agree?

MattKing · Jul 13, 2017

chip j said:
Mamiya TLR lenses aren't very Sharp--they were designed for portaits.

Are you sure?

John Wiegerink · Jul 13, 2017

Hmmm! I must have a different definition of sharp than some other folks. When I shot with my C330 and older C33(liked that camera) I tried to get all the later black series lenses since they offered better contrast trough better coating. I only had one lens that I thought wasn't cutting edge in the sharpness department. That was the black 55mm f4.5. I know others that claim different and I don't want to get in a pissing match with those folks. I'm just sayin I tried three different ones and none delivered for me. I figured after three tries that was enough. Now, had I tried a fourth? Who knows, but I can honestly say those Mamiya lenses didn't compare to my Hasselblad 50mm chrome. And they couldn't hold a candle to my Pentax 55mm 2nd and third version 6x7 lenses. Now the rest of them were darn good and I had absolutely no complaints and neither did the brides mom or the bride.

BMbikerider · Jul 13, 2017

I too had 'doubts' about a 55mm lens not being sharp when I bought one back in 1978. (The 105mm was outstanding!) The outfit was sold to be replaced a few years ago and that 55mm was much better. I have since read the quality control of the 55mm les sometimes was found wanting with many complaints and few items of praise. The 135 and 180 lenses were not a bad either.

When I went over to Mamiya 645 the lenses could easily have come from a different manufacturer. The 35, 45, 55, 80 and 150 I owned were all absolute cracking optics. Odd isn't it?

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 13, 2017

Sharp enough for Paul Strand (at the end of his life) and Diane Arbus...

removed account4 · Jul 13, 2017

marcmarc said:
So the Rolleicord that was gifted to me last year and that required almost $300 in work to bring back into usable condition is once again in need of more work. I'm getting intermittent blank frames (one on each of the two rolls I shot last week) as well as some frame overlaps. I'm just not going to put anymore money into this camera, especially if it's going to be a regular thing which is usually the case whenever I begin to use cameras of such age. I'm finding that with the money I'd probably have to spend on it again, I could get a Mamiya C330 and in the process get a newer TLR that offers interchangeable lenses and bellows focusing. I'm no stranger to Mamiya, I've used an RZ67 ProII for years. However, I really fell in love with using a TLR so I've decided to keep an eye out for a C330 S (the last model made by Mamiya) or the previous F model of which there seems to be many more floating around then the S. Unfortunately the only Mamiya trained tech in my area retired years ago so I have no one to bring any C330 I buy to be checked out. Jimmy was wonderful in checking out my RZ lenses and bodies as I purchased them. I've been checking ebay and many for sale there are from Japan which would make returning the camera if it's a lemon a major hassle. I'll just have to patiently wait for one to turn up locally.

sorry to hear your troubles marcmarc
where are you located ? near where i am there
are 2 fantastic repair shops. i had a rolliecord i bought off of
fleabay a few years back and it had problems. it was from the 30s
and i know if i was that vintage, i'd have issues too ! anyways, i brought it
one of the local repair guys and he overhauled it for way less than $300clams ..

mamiyas are nice... they work hard and as matt showed, have nice sharp lenses if you like that sort of thing.
and i have seen many a sweet portrait and other things taken with a mamiya ..
if it was me wearing your shoes
( thankfully its not because im broke, and i don't think you wear a size 7 )
i'd figure out if the repair guy actually repaired your camera
and if he didn't get a refund ( $ 300 and still not working doesn't sound like he did much )
then send it to a different repair guy. rolleis, even 78 year old ones ) are a thing of beauty ..
get it fixed and SELL IT
thankfully for me it would be a drive ( or a walk in your size 7's ) away
i'd take it to either midstate or zacks and when i got it back it wouldn't have any of the issues yours had / has
and then the only issue it would have is feeding it film.

have fun with your soon to be new mamiya !
john

pentaxpete · Jul 13, 2017

I am really pleased with my 'Gift' C220 from about 1984 with 'Blue Dot' 80mm f2.8 and the 'Blue Dot' 135mm f4.5 I got off e-bay through a dealer for £75 ( Don't tell the WIFE ! )
The C220 was given to me by a now-deceased Camera Club member. I used it in London and the negs were sharper then the 80mm f2.8 CFE Planar T* on my 2002 Hasselblad. I did a video about it on youtube -- you can see it here and some actual prints ----

E. von Hoegh · Jul 13, 2017

marcmarc said:
So the Rolleicord that was gifted to me last year and that required almost $300 in work to bring back into usable condition is once again in need of more work. I'm getting intermittent blank frames (one on each of the two rolls I shot last week) as well as some frame overlaps. I'm just not going to put anymore money into this camera, especially if it's going to be a regular thing which is usually the case whenever I begin to use cameras of such age. I'm finding that with the money I'd probably have to spend on it again, I could get a Mamiya C330 and in the process get a newer TLR that offers interchangeable lenses and bellows focusing. I'm no stranger to Mamiya, I've used an RZ67 ProII for years. However, I really fell in love with using a TLR so I've decided to keep an eye out for a C330 S (the last model made by Mamiya) or the previous F model of which there seems to be many more floating around then the S. Unfortunately the only Mamiya trained tech in my area retired years ago so I have no one to bring any C330 I buy to be checked out. Jimmy was wonderful in checking out my RZ lenses and bodies as I purchased them. I've been checking ebay and many for sale there are from Japan which would make returning the camera if it's a lemon a major hassle. I'll just have to patiently wait for one to turn up locally.

You need a different technician, not a different camera.

guangong · Jul 13, 2017

Yes, perhaps a different technician. Rolleiflex tlr cameras are rugged and long lasting. 40 years ago I dropped my 2.8F in its case from about 5 feet on to asphalt pavement. Rattle, rattle. Took to my friend who worked at Leitz. The only part broken was that the pin holding the back closed had sheared. Manfred called a friend at Rollei for a new pin. His friend said "That is a design problem with that camera, every time you drop it that pin breaks." (As if when you drop a Rollei nothing should break.) That incident was the first of many that made me a believer in camera cases.
IMO a Rollei is mor ergonomic than a tlr Mamiya.

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 13, 2017

The question is: do you want to be Richard Avedon or Diane Arbus ?

marcmarc · Jul 13, 2017

Thanks for the replies. I live in Los Angeles and my Rolleicord was overhauled by Harry Fleenor since I live relatively close enough to drop it off to his shop in person. There is another guy here in LA who many have stated they had good work from. I cannot recall his name at the moment but I suppose I could get an estimate from him. I'm sure the warranty from Fleenor is probably expired, 6 months seems to be the standard. However, I'm really interested in the Mamiya. I haven't heard anything about their lenses not being sharp, but maybe they just have a different look to them or as mentioned above they just aren't inherently contrasty. This could actually be a good thing, the light here in Los Angeles in very contrasty most of the year.

marcmarc · Jul 13, 2017

Philippe Grunchec said:
The question is: do you want to be Richard Avedon or Diane Arbus ?

Tough choice. Can I be both?

marcmarc · Jul 13, 2017

guangong said:
Yes, perhaps a different technician. Rolleiflex tlr cameras are rugged and long lasting. 40 years ago I dropped my 2.8F in its case from about 5 feet on to asphalt pavement. Rattle, rattle. Took to my friend who worked at Leitz. The only part broken was that the pin holding the back closed had sheared. Manfred called a friend at Rollei for a new pin. His friend said "That is a design problem with that camera, every time you drop it that pin breaks." (As if when you drop a Rollei nothing should break.) That incident was the first of many that made me a believer in camera cases.
IMO a Rollei is mor ergonomic than a tlr Mamiya.

Yes, the Rollei's are a bit easier to handle. The few times I picked up a Mamiya TLY to look at it was noticeably heavier.

marcmarc · Jul 13, 2017

E. von Hoegh said:
You need a different technician, not a different camera.

MattKing said:
Don't ignore the "plain" C330. Functionally speaking, it offers just about everything that the two more recent versions do.
Mine has worked well since I acquired it 40 or so years ago from the store I worked in at the time - it was the store demonstrator.
In early years it was my main camera for wedding work.
The body and viewing system has required only a very minor amount of maintenance. Over the years, the lenses I have had have only once require anything more than infrequent maintenance.
It (along with accessory prism finder) is shown in this self-portrait I took in 2009:

View attachment 182748

Thanks Matt. I'll keep the plain C330 in mind. My thoughts on the F and the S are simply they are going to be newer cameras and therefore may (or may not depending on their usage) have less problems then the older models.

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 13, 2017

BTW, I have two Rolleis and one Mamiya C330f with four lenses! For sure the Mamiya is heavier but you can have different lenses. Diane Arbus started with a Rollei WA and then switched to the Mamiya (and the Pentax 67 at the end, but that's another story and a different approach/"philosophy").

chip j · Jul 13, 2017

Did Paul Strand use chrome lenses or black ones?

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 13, 2017

As far as I can remember, Anthony Montoya told me that the camera was kept at the Strand Archives (upstate NY). He could tell you.

Fixcinater · Jul 13, 2017

If Fleenor did the work relating to the now current issues, I would be contacting him first.

Jerevan · Jul 13, 2017

The only thing I can say about the later Mamiyas (I have a C3 myself) is that the C330s while it is newer, it also has more plastic parts. If they aren't abused wedding cameras they tend to be sturdy and reliable.

Philippe Grunchec · Jul 13, 2017

Jerevan said:
The only thing I can say about the later Mamiyas (I have a C3 myself) is that the C330s while it is newer, it also has more plastic parts. If they aren't abused wedding cameras they tend to be sturdy and reliable.

+1
Go for a mint C330f plus some (blue dot?) lenses, you won't regret it!

MattKing · Jul 13, 2017

chip j said:
Did Paul Strand use chrome lenses or black ones?

The black lenses have better coatings and shutters that are more modern. They are also of more recent optical design. I prefer them to the older, chrome lenses, but that may be as much a result of them being designed to different specifications than the older lenses.
As all lens design involves choices and compromises, a statement that one lens is "better" than another always needs to be accompanied by the question - "In what way?"
To me, the resolution and contrast achieved with most of my Mamiya TLR series lenses has been nicely balanced - they render beautifully, and the detail is there!
The 55mm lens I had was certainly serviceable, but I didn't mind replacing it with wider lenses on my Mamiya 645 system, because it was really rather dim to view through.
I've reduced my kit to a single C330 body, 65mm and 135mm lenses and prism and waste level finders. It fits in a very nice, compact bag and is relatively light for a two lens medium format system.

Goodbye Rollei, Hello Mamiya

marcmarc

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chip j

BAC1967

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marcmarc

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Philippe Grunchec

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Goodbye Rollei, Hello Mamiya

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