Good starting combination (film, developer)

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PerTulip

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Hi!

I want to start developing my own B&W film (120 format). I understand the whole process and I am confident enough in my manual abilities. I will use a Jobo 1520.

The question is, what is a good starting combination (film+developer)? I guess I´ll be using HP5 and/or Tri-X, which don't require special developers like TMax or Delta. I know, everybody has their own film+developer+fixer preferences, I just need some pointers into a good starting point. I can experiment later on.

I won't be developing regularly, so there may be weeks between "sessions", so a developer that expires quickly will be wasted.

So I want:
- a developer that is easy to work with (easy to mix)
- right now I am not seeking the ultimate quality (grain, shadow/highlight detail), but of course I want good results. So any combination producing inferior results with HP5 and/or Tri-X won't do.
- chemistry I won't be throwing away because I just don't have time to develop some film

Adonal is often mentioned as a good starter developer. Any matching stop bath (or just water) and fixer?

Thanks!
 

Rudeofus

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Most current films and developers will give you good results. I recommend you start with products which you can easily source and which are likely going to stick around for some years, since every film and every developer needs some experience before you get optimal results. All that initial experience goes to waste if you have to switch products. Starting with a long shelf life developer (Rodinal&friends, HC-110, ...) may be a good idea, since these concentrates will still be there as backup if you have moved to other developers later.
 

rpavich

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I second this suggestion for Rodinal or HC-110. Both are simple to mix, use a syrup that doesn't go bad if left on the shelf, and is used one-shot.
Perfect for your needs.
 
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PerTulip

PerTulip

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Thanks for your advice.

I was leaning towards "Rodinal", namely Adox Adonal and then fix with Adox Adofix. That one seems to have the characteristics I am looking or. Just wanted to confirm with experienced users. Any trade-offs I should be aware of?
 

Rudeofus

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Rodinal is slightly on the grainy side, but many people love its pronounced, sharp grain especially in conjunction with HP-5+.
 

bvy

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A bottle of HC-110 is what you want. Mix it as needed, dump it afterwards. It's consistent, versatile, and rock solid dependable. A bottle of concentrate takes up little space and keeps practically forever.

Stop baths and fixers all work the same. You don't need to "match" them to any developer. Vinegar and water (1+4) makes a good stop bath. Ilford Rapid Fixer is pretty standard. Just avoid what are labeled hardening fixers (like Kodafix) unless you have find a need for them.
 

twelvetone12

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Rodinal and hp5 work well but you will get a nice grainy neg. Not bad, just grainy! I love rodinal mostly for its convenience, you use very little concentrate and it lasts a lot. It is my "sporadic" developer.
I would try hc101 but here in Swiss is hard to find and very very expensive. Depending on where you are based it could be a good choice.
 

Anon Ymous

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Rodinal, as others already mentioned, gives grainy negatives, especially with films like HP5+, or Tri-X, but with 120 film it will be less of a problem.
 

baachitraka

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HP5+ & Rodinal in 120
APX-100 & Rodinal in 135
 

Gerald C Koch

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Two super dependable workhorses HC-110 and Kodak 400TX.
 

trendland

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Hi!

I want to start developing my own B&W film (120 format). I understand the whole process and I am confident enough in my manual abilities. I will use a Jobo 1520.

The question is, what is a good starting combination (film+developer)? I guess I´ll be using HP5 and/or Tri-X, which don't require special developers like TMax or Delta. I know, everybody has their own film+developer+fixer preferences, I just need some pointers into a good starting point. I can experiment later on.

I won't be developing regularly, so there may be weeks between "sessions", so a developer that expires quickly will be wasted.

So I want:
- a developer that is easy to work with (easy to mix)
- right now I am not seeking the ultimate quality (grain, shadow/highlight detail), but of course I want good results. So any combination producing inferior results with HP5 and/or Tri-X won't do.
- chemistry I won't be throwing away because I just don't have time to develop some film

Adonal is often mentioned as a good starter developer. Any matching stop bath (or just water) and fixer?

Thanks!

Ok - Hp5 as starting point ? Hmmm:wondering: ?
Let me say the following : In the past Hp5 was a popular press film from many reasons.
It was in concern of its speed, its pushing
potential, the relative fine grain to the periods far behind.
But one simple characteristic made Hp5
to everybodys darling : It was the most
"safe" film - press guys were prout about.
Some pushes Hp5 up to ISO 6400.
I can imagine such terrible grain and contrasts.Nothing remaining of tonal range capabilitys :redface::cry:..
But notice : press photographers are mostly not involved in Fine Art Photograpy.
They just needed a result to bw magazines from the period of 70th,80th.
Now coming directly to your intention :
Hp5 gives results in the most terrible soup one can imagine.
They have developed Hp5 out of a tent in
Africa with hot water(warmed just from climate condition in hot summer-serengeti) contamined soups from everything you could imagine.
And it also worked with bad equiped labs
in India !
So Hp5 is a starting point of cause.
Do me a favour and pls. come very soon to special developers if you trust yourself.
Because Hp5 in D76/Ilfosol is for scared little girls in darkroom.:wink:

with regards
 

markbarendt

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The developer I find easiest to use is Ilford’s DD-X. At a 1+4 mix there is no eye dropper, minuscule spoon, special beaker, or syringe required; just pour directly into the same 250 or 500 or 1000 ml beaker/measuring cup you are going use anyway.

It also has the benefit of being a really great developer that will work well with any B&W film you happen to choose.

HP-5+ & Tri-X are of course great choices. So are T-Max and Delta; contrary to any myths you may have heard, they do not require special developers. The only difference is that with the newer tech films longer fixing and rinse times are typical.
 

Kawaiithulhu

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These are all good advice for combinations that you can work with for years, and all are unlikely to go out of production.

Spend a little time searching for images (flickr) using each film and developer combination and see which look you prefer. Once you get started, keep with that combination for a while and get used to its qualities.
The worst mistake a new darkroom hobbyist can make is to keep switching before giving one combination of developer and film a chance to see what they can really do.
 

removed account4

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hi there

i don'tthink it matters too much exactly what developer and film you use ... just buy a lot of each
so you can expose it, process it, and learn from it. too often someone has a flavor of the week
sort of thing going on and they don't use their film or camera or developer to understand or
see or ? what is going on.
not sure if you will be scanning or printing, but make sure whatever you do at the end of the process
is done when you are doing your film and developer thing too ... so you can see
the print ... which usually matters the most.
good luck !
 

removedacct1

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Rodinal is an excellent choice for beginners and seasoned practitioners alike, because it delivers excellent results with almost any film, is easy to mix, and an opened bottle should remain usable for a year or more under normal storage conditions. Does it exaggerate grain characteristics? Only moderately. A "fast" film like Tri-X or HP5 (or Bergger Pancro 400, which I highly recommend as well) has its grain characteristics "baked in" to the emulsion and your choice of developer minimally modifies grain size and sharpness. Its not as if one developer can render grain that looks like it was shot on Ilford Pan-F (25ASA) where an alternate developer makes the grain look like coarse sand on the beach. The degree to which the developer modifies grain characteristics is very limited. It would be a great experiment for you to shoot one roll of either HP5 or Tri-X (assuming you want to start out with a fairly fast emulsion), photographing the same subject (use a tripod) for all twelve frames, then cut the film into two or three equal pieces and process each in a different developer. Then you can see for yourself exactly how much or how little each different developer affects grain (and contrast/tonal rendering, etc), and how subtle the differences can be. (You may want to get comfortable with the whole developing process by processing a few rolls before doing this experiment) As someone else pointed out, since you are planning on working with medium format, the negatives will be quite large and contain a lot of detailed information, and because of their size, the appearance of grain is nowhere near as pronounced as the same film shot in 35mm format. The larger the negative you shoot, the less grain you are going to see, and so developer choice is going to be less important* in terms of how it affects grain characteristics.
*not unimportant, just less important.

For practical purposes, I would suggest you not get too hung up on your choice of developer. For the beginner, the liquid/dilutable developers are an excellent choice because of their obvious convenience factors. The big three are Rodinal, HC-110, and Ilford DD-X. They are all fine choices. They all have good shelf life (with some variation) and so you can have developer at the ready, without worrying whether or not it has oxidized (expired), even if you pause for a couple of months between shoots. You could easily choose a trusted standard developer like D-76 to start with, but it - along with most of the powder formulas - has a fairly short shelf life once mixed. You could easily open that half-full gallon jug of D-76 you made three months ago, only to find its turned amber/brown from oxidization, at which point its useless. The dilutable concentrates significantly minimize the risk of finding out that you have nothing but expired developer on hand. Oh, and by the way - Rodinal and Adonal and RO-9 are all the same product, so buy whichever you have access to.

You mentioned something about the "tabular grain" films (Delta & T-Max) requiring special developers, and that's not quite correct. In fact, Rodinal is an excellent choice for almost any film you can lay your hands on. It will give good results with the Delta films, and the T-Max films as well as it will with traditional grain style films. These films aren't so very different that they "require" their own special developers.

And as for your choice of fixer: it isn't really important as long as you use it according to directions. Ilford Rapid Fix is an excellent choice because its cheap, stores well and washes out as easily as you could want. Do you know the basic principle of fixing films? Cut a small piece off the end of your roll of film (In the darkroom, after you've unspooled the film to load it in the tank, snip a quarter inch off the end and set it aside) and take the 1/4" piece to your "developing station" (darkroom, kitchen sink, or wherever you will be processing the film) and drop it into your fixer. Be ready with a stopwatch/timer and count how many seconds it takes to "clear" the film (make it transparent without any cloudiness. Some of the film base dye will likely remain, but that's not what you're watching for - you are watching for the film to go transparent). Take note of how many seconds it took for the film to go completely clear, then double that number: that is your optimal fixing time, for that brand/dilution of fixer. The "clearing time" increases as you use the fix for each roll of film: the fixer becomes saturated with silver and so the amount of time it takes to remove silver from a film gets longer and longer. Why do I suggest you learn how long the ideal fixing time is, using this method? Because if you simply drop your HP5 into fresh Rapid Fix (of any brand) and leave it there for 2-3 minutes, you are allowing the fix to penetrate the emulsion far more than you need to. If you fix for only the minimum ideal time, then the washing stage can be completed in a shorter time and fix is more easily washed out of the film. In fact, freshly made Ilford Rapid Fix clears HP5 in as little as 10-15 seconds in my experience, and so the film is fully fixed after 30 seconds under normal conditions. There's quite a difference between 30 seconds in the fixer, and three minutes. (or more!) Bottom line: there's no need to fix longer than the ideal minimum. Find out what the ideal is for your fixer and film combination.
Some would say this is "a fine detail" that isn't required learning for someone first starting out with their own processing, and perhaps that's true. But it doesn't hurt to learn good habits from the very start :smile:
 

mgb74

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HC-110 is a good choice. But it's highly concentrated and is (now) only sold in 1L bottles. So for someone who doesn't plan to develop regularly, the bottle will last you a long, long time. It's not an issue of it going bad, it's a question of whether you want to invest in that much developer to start. I generally recommend Sprint, but not sure it's available where you are.
 

RPC

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I won't be developing regularly, so there may be weeks between "sessions", so a developer that expires quickly will be wasted.

Thanks!

Most developers can have a long life if you store them properly. They must be protected from oxidation. Stored in glass or high quality plastic bottles, filled, and tightly sealed, developers can last many months. At one time I would store developers in cheap plastic bottles, partially filled with poorly sealing caps and the developer would go bad in a few weeks if that long. It was a revelation when I discovered the difference that storing properly makes.
 

Cholentpot

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Tmax-400 and D-76.

Can't go wrong with either and they are simple to use. D-76 is cheap as it comes and gives great results. It's also simple to use. Make the mix and store in plastic pop bottles. No need for calculations. Stock, half stock half water (1+1) or 1+2 that's about it. It's where I started and it's frustration free. If not D-76 go with HC-110. I'd keep away from Rodinal to start, it might give you a look you might not like.

D-76 is the Coca Cola of developers. It's hits all the right spots.
 

tedr1

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Whichever materials you choose obtain the instructions for use from the manufacturer, read them all the way through, and don't cheat.
 

Gerald C Koch

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HC-110 is a good choice. But it's highly concentrated and is (now) only sold in 1L bottles. So for someone who doesn't plan to develop regularly, the bottle will last you a long, long time. It's not an issue of it going bad, it's a question of whether you want to invest in that much developer to start. I generally recommend Sprint, but not sure it's available where you are.

You can always leave the bottle in your will. :smile:
 

BradS

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For years (decades?) the standard first film and developer was Kodak Tri-X and D-76 (1+1). This is still a great choice and one of my favorites. It's really hard to go wrong with this combo.

Today, I might also add either Ilford HP5+ or FP4+ in D-76 (1+1).

I also think there is a lot of value in sticking with one camera (really one light meter), one film and one developer and keeping detailed notes (on both exposure and development). Trying a bunch of different films and developers is fun but doing so introduces a lot of variables and makes it very difficult to learn what works, how it works and why it works.

Try to nail down how to consistently make printable negatives before indulging in the luxury of trying all kids of different film-developer combinations.
 
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MattKing

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First, welcome to Photrio - hope you enjoy your time here.
My suggestion: Verichrome Pan and Kodak Universal developer in a Tri-Chem pack:smile: - it worked for me!
Less flippantly, there actually is some wisdom in that suggestion. When I started, that combination was easily obtained and well documented, and it was designed for use by people with "hobbyist" types of resources. That combination is long gone, but there are combinations that are easy to obtain and use today.
Noting that you are in Vienna, it makes sense that you choose between films and developers that are easy to obtain there.
Do you have stores that you can attend in person and buy films off the shelf? If so, and if they have knowledgeable people there, it is worth paying a premium for help from them. You could always check their advice here.
Otherwise, I would recommend well known products designed for general use. Factors like long life concentrates are the sort of practical factors that can make the process easier. I would suggest, however, that when it comes to developers, a shorter lived, powder based developer may make just as much sense. They tend to be relatively inexpensive, they do last several months when mixed and properly stored and it is easy to keep an extra packet on the shelf in case you have to discard some old mixed up developer before you use it.
As an example, and based on US availability and prices, you can buy two packages of X-Tol developer for $20.00 USD, mix up one and store the other. Even if you only use half the one you mixed up in its recommended 6 month life (which can be extended in various ways), you are only wasting $5.00 by discarding it at the end of the six months. If X-Tol isn't available easily in Vienna, I'm sure there are alternatives that are.
And by the way, T-Max 400 works wonderfully in all sorts of developers. This is T-Max 400 in HC-110 used replenished:

upload_2017-11-7_17-49-40.png
 
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Welcome to Photrio!

As you see, there are as many answers to your question as there are photographers around in this forum.

My personal favourite is HP5+ in Phenidone (if I need a bit more light) or Perceptol (if I want finest grain). I did not like the grain I got with HP5+ in Adonal, so I stopped using that combination after one try only.
Another very interesting combination is the Rollei RPX400 (made by Ilford for Maco) with the RPX-D Developer (made by Spur specifically for the RPX400 120 film). This combination gives an excellent contrast, fine grain and good options for push development. The downside is that this combination is rather expensive, both film and developer are sold with a premium by macodirect .

With regards to the rest of the chemistry:
Stop bath & Fixer: If you use and acid fixer (e.g. Adofix+), the stop bath is not very important, so you can use a water "stop" bath or a real stop bath without incurring the risk of "things happening" .
If you should choose an alcaline fix (e.g. Moersch ATS alkalisch) you need an acid stop bath (e.g. Adostop), else development might continue during the fixing stage.
 
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