Good price on a Rolleiflex?

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

Hey everyone,

I hate to ask such a question, cause there are resources out there and of course eBay. But the world of Rolleiflex is huge, and thus it would be great to hear from some actual people who have experience in the matter.

I have the opportunity to buy a Rolleiflex 7.5cm f/3.5 Zeiss Tessar for $200 (down from $250). Serial number is 1092826. To the left of the serial # it has the letters DRP and to the right, DRGM.

According to Rolleiclub.com it's an Automat Model 3, K4B2. I'm skeptical of the information at antiquecameras.net because it doesn't necessarily correspond to rolleiclub. But either way it looks like $150-$200 is the maximum.

The condition looks good, and of course I will inspect it in person. Seller is a photographer who says it works great, and has mainly just had it on a shelf. Comes with the lens caps, but no leather case.

From what I can tell, it's no steal, but it's certainly a reasonable price. Would others agree?

I'd much appreciate any input!!

Thanks everyone,

Chris "Holmburgers"

ic-racer · Feb 18, 2010

Seems like top dollar. For that price should be in mint condition with case, cap, strap, box.

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

Gotcha. That's good to know. What price would be reasonable? Basically, my idea of a good deal is if I can resell it for profit or at the least, break even.

ic-racer · Feb 18, 2010

If it works perfect I'd think $150 would be a good deal. If you really, really like it $200 would be OK if you are going to keep it and use it. It might be hard to get your money back if a $300 complete Hassleblad system comes along and you want to sell it again

On KEH it looks like the next step up from an Automat is going to be in the $300 to $500 range.

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

Thanks for the info. I'll see if he can do $150 or I'm out.

We'll see about that $300 Hasselblad... Shaa!, and monkeys might fly out my butt! (wayne's world)

DLawson · Feb 18, 2010

holmburgers said:
I have the opportunity to buy a Rolleiflex 7.5cm f/3.5 Zeiss Tessar for $200 (down from $250). Serial number is 1092826. To the left of the serial # it has the letters DRP and to the right, DRGM.

Can't advise on Rolleiflexes, but FYI:

DRP indicates a German Registered Patent, and DRGM a German Registered Design. I'm unclear on whether DRGM is closer to a US Design Patent or a US Trademark, but I think it is the former.

Slixtiesix · Feb 18, 2010

Correct, DRP ist a patent, DRGM is a design ("Gebrauchsmuster"). It also indicates that it is pre-1945, otherwise it would be DBP and DBGM. This seems to be a rather old Rollei with probably an uncoated lens, but I think 200$ can be realistic, depending on condition.

Regards, Benjamin

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

Interesting. thanks FTI (for that information), cheers!

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

by the way, it has a red "T" on/around the taking lens. Does this signify a coating of some sort?

Q.G. · Feb 18, 2010

It does. The red "T" is the Zeiss mark for their antireflection coating.
Had it been a "T*" (T with star), it would have been their later (from the 1970sw onward) multilayer coating. Without the "*", it is a simpler coating. Still very effective; the difference in effect between "T" and "T*" is very small.

ic-racer · Feb 18, 2010

Here is something for you, that I would consider a fantastic deeal: a Rollieflex 3.5E with cap, hood, pistol grip, rolliefix, rolliecine for $290.

http://daytona.craigslist.org/pho/1605392686.html

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

Cool, thank you.

*update* I told the seller I can only go as high as $150; but cash in his hand this Saturday. He's thinking about it and he'll let me know. I'm thinking..... YES

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

oh, and the Daytona craigslist offer looks sweet, but local offers only

elekm · Feb 18, 2010

If it has a red "T," then the lens should be marked in millimeters, rather than centimeters.

It's always vital to note whether the lens is marked in "mm" or in "cm," because it can indicate if the lens is prewar Germany, postwar West Germany or postwar East Germany.

My own feeling is that the price is a bit high for an uncoated lens but within reason for a coated lens. The box and case are extra and add value only if you plan to resell the camera.

I think that prices will be higher if you can inspect the camera in person. Buying online through eBay or forums will often result in a lower price, because you're buying by photo only. A hands-on inspection of a camera means a lot, especially if you're buying from someone who is knowledgeable about the camera and its history.

If that were my camera, and it had a coated lens, I would sell it for $225.

holmburgers · Feb 18, 2010

Hmm, well that's odd. It definitely has a red T and it's definitely marked as 7.5cm. The serial number on the taking lens is 2328324, if that helps.

I agree with what you say about being able to see it in person, and whom you buy it from. If he says no, I'll probably try for $175 and then see what happens from there. I definitely want it!

hidesert · Feb 18, 2010

I own a later model of the Automat, from ~1954 or so. It was my first good camera, bought in 1964 when i was 16. I haven't used it in years but I just sent it to Mark Hansen for a CLA, even though the transport and shutter seem fine, lubricants dry up over the years and sometimes problems don't show up for a while.

So you might keep that in mind, that you might have to spend $200-$250 on it even though it looks good when you inspect it.

Q.G. · Feb 18, 2010

elekm said:
If it has a red "T," then the lens should be marked in millimeters, rather than centimeters.

It's always vital to note whether the lens is marked in "mm" or in "cm," because it can indicate if the lens is prewar Germany, postwar West Germany or postwar East Germany.

T-coating dates from well before WWII.
Though i'm not sure when they first started marking coated lenses as such.

Andy38 · Feb 18, 2010

Automat 3 is the first Rolleiflex TLR with coated lenses and was made from 1945 to 1949.
Taking lens is Carl Zeis Jena, Tessar Opton or Schneider Xenar.
I have some of them ; if lenses are perfect and if camera is in good working condition, I think $200 is not too expensive .

I have not seen pre-war lenses with coating and I don't know if they were...
I have many pre-war Rolleiflex's, Rolleicord's and Super Ikonta's with Zeiss lenses and no one has T* coating.

jmal · Feb 18, 2010

If you can get a functional, late model Automat that is in good shape, I think $200 is a great price. I have been hunting for that exact camera and after a couple of bad deals on Ebay (at quite a bit more than $200), I would not hesitate so long as I could put my hands on it. I was refunded my money for my bad experiences, so it worked out. There are all sorts of people that will tell you that you can get a complete this or that for mere pennies, but this is rare. The price guides online are on the low side based on my research. For example, Krikor sells CLA'd Automats for $500+. Subtract a couple hundred for the CLA and another hundred in profit (my assumptions) and you are still looking at a $200 camera. Being able to inspect the camera in person is worth a little to me as well. It might save some headaches compared to buying online.

jon koss · Feb 18, 2010

holmburgers said:
From what I can tell, it's no steal, but it's certainly a reasonable price. Would others agree?

It all depends on perspective. If you are planning to flip the camera on eBay and a huge profit is the goal, then it's no steal. If you are in the market for a smooth, quiet, lightweight, compact and faithful photographic companion whose negs will thrill you from now until you leave the planet, then a $200 Automat with a coated lens is one of the Seven Bargains of the Modern World. I would plan on spending a bit under $200 more for a CLA if you really plan to take pictures with it. Even at $350 to $400 all in, you will basically have a bombproof camera that will last decades with little or no attention. This equates to a couple of pennies per day. If the lens and basic mechanical functions are sound, then just buy the camera, CLA it and start shooting. You might spend another year looking just to save $50. If your time has any value then the camera at hand is a better value than one you might find after hours and hours of additional searching.

As far as the lens, it is probably a Jena Tessar with coating. Does it say Jena on the bezel? The immediate postwar camera with the immediate prewar lens would make sense. In any case it will be a great performer.

Bottom line: if you are looking for a camera to use rather than fondle 'n' flip, then go for it once you confirm the basic soundness of the unit.

Best of luck,

Jon

holmburgers · Feb 19, 2010

The last several posts have been very good... they're making me ponder... (yes it does say Jena on the bezel). I do plan on using it, indeed, it would be my sole MF camera. Not wanting to pay $200 is more of a budget concern, but I agree that it's a unique opportunity to be able to see it in person. I don't see too many locally.

I'm gonna let it play out; he'll let me know by tomorrow about the $150 offer. If he comes back and says ok, well then that's awesome. If he says no, I'll go up. From everything you've said about Rolleiflexes and what I've read online, this would indeed be a lifetime purchase. I like this idea, and my time is indeed quite valuable (though my current wage$ would suggest other wise )

Thanks for everyone's input

Q.G. · Feb 19, 2010

A quick note on the T coating bit: Zeiss started using T coatings in the mid to late 1930s.
So not, as i said, long before WWII.

chris00nj · Feb 19, 2010

I recently bought a slightly later Rolleiflex Automat MV-EVS II (#17xxxxx) from Igor Camera exchange, but its the same lens. It is in "user condition", but it functions well and the glass is clean. I paid $175.

It is my first and only MF camera. I am very happy with it and images are awesome. Here are some samples Camera + Zeiss lens for at most $200 is hard to beat. A Hasselblad and Zeiss lens is $700+. Whether $200 is fair given the market depends on the condition.

For the record, DRP means Deutsche Reich Patent. Even though the Third Reich had fallen, that was still the patent name until the patent law got revised in the early 50s. DBP came afterwards and means Deutsche Bundes Patent (Bundes = Federal).

Andy38 · Feb 19, 2010

Q.G. said:
A quick note on the T coating bit: Zeiss started using T coatings in the mid to late 1930s.
So not, as i said, long before WWII.

Zeiss coating patent began in 1935 and was first protected by military secret (to prevent from exporting); but it's possible to find some rare coated lenses made before 1940 .

luvcameras · Feb 20, 2010

Rolleiflex Price Guide is here Dead Link Removed

Dan

Good price on a Rolleiflex?

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