good papers, bad papers, is there a list somewhere ?

removed account4 · May 15, 2011

is there a list of good and bad papers for the folks doing coat your own photographs ?

do processes besides cyanotypes care about acid free or unbuffered papers ?

is there a difference between archival and acid free ?

sorry i ask, but the fine folks at 2 art supply stores i frequent
looked at me like deer in the headlights when i asked " is this acid free paper unbuffered" ..

and lastly ... is there a way to "unbuffer" acid free paper if i find it is buffered ?
will a dip in a dilute white vinegar do the trick ( and will my paper stink of vinegar afterwards ?)

thanks !

john

Mark Fisher · May 15, 2011

Sort of depends on the process. I've had good luck with cyanotype on any unbuffered paper I've tried. Arches Platine is unbuffered and I've heard that is now available again. There is a list on alternativephotography.com for various processes. I haven't done alternative processes much in the last couple of years, but I'd probably just get paper from Bostick and Sullivan since they will have paper that will work for your process. Unfortunately, different runs of paper seem to work differently sometimes/

removed account4 · May 16, 2011

thanks mark!
i called the manufacturers of the papers
that i bought ( and didn't realize i bought them last year )
and it turns out they are both buffered ...
so i am going to be fizzing them out in vinegar

thanks again !
john

holmburgers · May 17, 2011

Let's say we're making carbon prints, and we just need a good strong paper that will last and not discolor over the years. Is a paper like Arches really that much more superior to something from Strathmore? http://www.strathmoreartist.com/paint-watercolor.html

Sure, Arches has half a millenium of experience making paper, but do the modern variants get reasonably close, for all intents and purposes?

Or is the choice of paper more aesthetic, and less about "archival" properties?

Thanks!

jp498 · May 17, 2011

No scientific proof here, but I sorta feel that a paper designed to be buffered may be vastly less archival or stable once the buffering is artificially removed. Either the buffering is what makes it last, or the buffering is what make it salable to the art community. Where is a paper is on that continuum only it's maker knows.

holmburgers · May 17, 2011

As I understand it, the buffer is just something like sodium carbonate, an alkali added to counteract atmospheric acids. You only want/need unbuffered papers for cyanotype as far as I know, which are uniquely sensitive to alkali's.

For all other processes you want buffered & acid-free; made acid-free in the first place, and buffered so that it remains that way in the long haul.

I could be missing something however... so I dont' want my word to be taken as gospel.

removed account4 · May 17, 2011

holmburgers said:
As I understand it, the buffer is just something like sodium carbonate, an alkali added to counteract atmospheric acids. You only want/need unbuffered papers for cyanotype as far as I know, which are uniquely sensitive to alkali's.

For all other processes you want buffered & acid-free; made acid-free in the first place, and buffered so that it remains that way in the long haul.

I could be missing something however... so I dont' want my word to be taken as gospel.

i was told by someone in the biz yesterday
that the buffer is added because the materials used to make the papers
are slightly acidic sometimes. ph neutral papers on the other hand
well, they are from materials that somehow mysteriously are
free from acidity ..

i am still confused about this but i am not going to worry about it

R Shaffer · May 17, 2011

My favorite is Rives BFK. It's cheap, nice texture, most art supply stock it & no need to acidify for cyanotype, although I do think it extends the scale a bit if you do.

Davec101 · May 17, 2011

jnanian said:
is there a list of good and bad papers for the folks doing coat your own photographs ?

do processes besides cyanotypes care about acid free or unbuffered papers ?

is there a difference between archival and acid free ?

sorry i ask, but the fine folks at 2 art supply stores i frequent
looked at me like deer in the headlights when i asked " is this acid free paper unbuffered" ..

and lastly ... is there a way to "unbuffer" acid free paper if i find it is buffered ?
will a dip in a dilute white vinegar do the trick ( and will my paper stink of vinegar afterwards ?)

thanks !

john

There is a list that alternative photography .com compiled visit :

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/paper/big-paper-survey-results

To de-buffer alkaline papers use 3-4 % oxalic acid for 5 to 15 mins.

removed account4 · May 17, 2011

THANKS DAVE !!

- this is exactly what i was looking for

john

jrhilton · Jun 2, 2011

jnanian said:
i was told by someone in the biz yesterday
that the buffer is added because the materials used to make the papers
are slightly acidic sometimes.

That is very often the case. Many makers refer to a paper as "acid-free", but often what it means in reality is it is actually slightly acidic with alkali buffers added during manufacturing to get back to a neutral pH, or there abouts.

From researching and looking at paper specifications over the last few years I don't think there are that many watercolour papers that have no buffers of any sort in them these days, and this concurs with the views of the staff at my local paper supplier who must be fed up with me asking for lots of samples of different paper each time I visit.

Based on my experience, if I paper needs an acid pre-soak try and find an alternative, it is just an added step and results are usually not as good as using a compatible paper from the start. An acid-pre-soak can also damage a paper's sizing too so you have to be careful, especially if it is just surface sized, so results can vary a lot between papers.

Murph · Jun 18, 2011

What about papers from Moab (Entrada), or Hahenmuehl (Photo Rag) for coating and use? I use them exclusively on my 4880, but was wondering if they would make good Platinum/albumin papers?

good papers, bad papers, is there a list somewhere ?

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