Good Homebrews for High Speed Film

dancqu · Jun 12, 2005

I shoot Pan F+ for the most part but do have a few ready
to develop rolls of HP5, Tri-X, and Delta 3200. I don't think
the FX-1 - Beutler type used with the Pan F+ will do for
those high speed films.

I'm not after a push developer but rather one for fine grain
and EIs of 300 +/- for the Tri X and HP5 and 800 +/- for
the Delta 3200.

I compound fractional batches and use one-shot.
I'm considering classic D-76; 2gr metol, 100gr sulfite, 5gr
hydroquinone, and 2gr borax. Can I do any better? Dan

Ronald Moravec · Jun 12, 2005

I have tried all sorts of thing over the years and recently tried undiluted D76, your formula, and find it the best. Just put it in small one time use bottles just after mixing so air can`t get to it. You get unpredictable activity level changes if it does. NO HALF FULL BOTTLES even for a week.

Fractional batches are a waste as it will last 6 months in the dark with no air and you start getting into measurement problenms. And D76 should sit 24 hr before use.

Tri x is five minutes at 68 with agitation 5/30.

skahde · Jun 13, 2005

I found DS10 to be especially good for high-speed films.

psvensson · Jun 13, 2005

I make fractional batches that I use right after mixing. I have good consistency, but it's a bit of drag to weigh the ascorbic acid every time.

For 35 mm I use, in order of mixing:

1L water
50g sulfite (two tablespoons)
2 g ascorbic acid
5 ml phenidone 1% in 91% rubbing alcohol

It needs maybe 20% more development time than D-76 1:1. The grain is very fine and speed is good. Dissolving the sulfite raises the water temperature by 2 deg F.

Add a pinch of sulfite to the alcohol, and it will keep for months and months.

Canuck · Jun 13, 2005

psvensson said:
I make fractional batches that I use right after mixing. I have good consistency, but it's a bit of drag to weigh the ascorbic acid every time.

For 35 mm I use, in order of mixing:

1L water
50g sulfite (two tablespoons)
2 g ascorbic acid
5 ml phenidone 1% in 91% rubbing alcohol

I use some generic vitamin-c tablets from Costco. At 500 mg, I would just pop 4 into solution. No weighing. It includes some inert material but hasn't affected anything yet.

psvensson · Jun 13, 2005

Somebody is bound to come by and say the sulfite is not necessary, and that there are better accelerators. Let me reply in advance: I get finer grain with sulfite than with any other method I've tried. There are good sulfite-free developers too, and they may meet your needs. But if you like the look of D-76, I think you will more likely prefer a sulfite-based developer. For low-speed films, this would be less of a consideration.

psvensson · Jun 13, 2005

Canuck said:
I use some generic vitamin-c tablets from Costco. At 500 mg, I would just pop 4 into solution. No weighing. It includes some inert material but hasn't affected anything yet.

Cool! I think I'll try that. Do they dissolve fast?

Canuck · Jun 13, 2005

For me, at 70F, it would take 2-3 minutes to completely dissolve with all the little floaties coming to the top. Works great!

psvensson · Jun 13, 2005

Dan, it looks like you have the ingredients for D-23. I haven't used it, but it seems like it would be good for making up on the spot, and you dispense with the borax, which is slow to dissolve. I hear it doesn't keep as well as D-76.

Gerald Koch · Jun 13, 2005

The problem with the activity of D-76 changing upon storage and becoming more active is caused by a complex reaction of the hydroquinone. Grant Haist suggested a viariant of D-76 which eliminated the problem by eliminating the hydroquinone from D-76. The modified formula is called D-76H and it works very well and keeps in partially filled containers.

Metol ......................... 2.0 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy)..... 100 g
Borax ......................... 2.0 g
Water to make ............. 1.0 l

Gerald Koch · Jun 13, 2005

Sorry the amount of Metol in the formula I posted should be 2.5 g

psvensson · Jun 13, 2005

According to this study, D-76H has rather poor keeping qualities, presumably because it's not sustained by the self-replenishing effect of the hq-sulfite reaction.

http://www.udmercy.edu/crna/agm/phenvitc.htm

dancqu · Jun 13, 2005

psvensson said:
"Somebody is bound to come by and say the sulfite is not
necessary, and that there are better accelerators. Let me
reply in advance: I get finer grain with sulfite than with any
other method I've tried."

I keep a least chemistry approach in mind. Remember, I'm the
fellow that processes one-shot with one tray. The less chemistry
needed to compound the better. D-76 is loaded with sulfite
while types like FX-1, Beutlers, Rodinal, etc, have very
little but are best for slower already fine grain films.

Lowering the ph leads to finer grain but slower emulsion speeds.
I was using D23, my 8 and 80 gram version, for a while but thought
perhaps I was losing film speed due to low ph. On the assumption
that metol has a not so low turn on ph range I switched to
carbonate. I think my film speed is up some but can't
quantify. I've a fine densitometer but short on time.

I recall having read that there is an optimal sulfite level per unit
volume. I remember, an article by R. Suzuki. Dan

"There are good sulfite-free developers too, and they may
meet your needs. But if you like the look of D-76, I think you
will more likelyprefer a sulfite-based developer. For low-speed
films, this would be less of a consideration."

gainer · Jun 13, 2005

I mentioned it before, but be careful that what you get at the pharmacy is ascorbic acid. The body also can use dehydroascorbic acid as Vitamin C, but it won't develop film. I think it should be marked on the container, but I don't know for sure if it is required to be identified as anything but Vitamin C.

gainer · Jun 13, 2005

Some time ago, when I first used phenidone, before I learned about ascorbic acid, I made a substitute for D-23 using 0.1 gram of phenidone + 8 or more grams of hydroquinine along with 100 grams of sodium sulfite per liter. My idea was that the PQ combunation is less sensitive to bromide content than the metol, and the phenidone can only activate a certain amount of hydroquinone, which is usually considered to be about 40 times the weight of the phenidone. My thought was that the developer would be self replenishing. I used to develop a roll and pour the developer back into the bottle. When it got so gross looking that my worry wart started hurting, I mixed a new batch. At the time, I was working full time at NASA, playing in two symphony orchestras and various other musical engagements, taking pictures of guest artists at dress rehearsals and having prints ready for autographing the next day, while trying to be a good father to 6 children. I never had a failure I could attribute to weak developer, and I got 8 or more rolls out of a quart.

I just recently resurrected this formula and it still makes good negatives aout of HP5+. Sulfite IS a good preservative for hydroquinone.

dancqu · Jun 14, 2005

Ronald Moravec said:
I have tried all sorts of thing over the years and recently
tried undiluted D76, your formula, and find it the best. Just
put it in small one time use bottles just after mixing so air can`t
get to it. You get unpredictable activity level changes if it
does. NO HALF FULL BOTTLES even for a week.

Fractional batches are a waste as it will last 6 months in the
dark with no air and you start getting into measurement
problenms. And D76 should sit 24 hr before use.

Tri x is five minutes at 68 with agitation 5/30.

All about D-76 and many versions at a R. Suzuki site. At Google
enter, "years of D 76" .

I'll likely give an 80 gram sulfite D-76 a try. My Acculab is
good for .01 gram resolution. A half batch should do for starters.
I've a bunch of amber glass Boston Rounds with Polycone caps;
one serving per bottle. As I use chemistry one-shot, a 1:1 or
so dilution will be needed.

If I read Mr. Suzuki correctly, the borax is needed only IF the
developer is re-bottled after use. Dan

dancqu · Jun 14, 2005

Gerald Koch said:
The problem with the activity of D-76 changing upon storage
and becoming more active is caused by a complex reaction of
the hydroquinone.
Grant Haist suggested a viariant of D-76 which eliminated the
problem by eliminating the hydroquinone from D-76. The
modified formula is called D-76H and it works very well
and keeps in partially filled containers.

Metol ......................... 2.5 g
Sodium sulfite (anhy)..... 100 g
Borax ......................... 2.0 g
Water to make ............. 1.0 l

Correction noted and made. Most readings mention the
addition of borax as the cure for the used or oxidized HQ
caused increase in activity. I did read one article which
placed the blame on the hydrolysis of the borax. The
cure? Minus the borax.

I use all chemistry one-shot so never have it used
or oxidized; no used or O2ed, no HQ, no borax. That
leaves 2.5 grams Metol and 100 grams S. Sulfite
which makes for a 1/3 strength D-23.

FX-13 looks interesting. It is a high sulfite, metol, carbonate
brew and, save for the 8 fold increase in sulfite, the same as
FX-1. The results, I'd think, are likely similar to some of the
PC brews mentioned. Likely I'll test a D-76 and FX-13. Dan

Gerald Koch · Jun 15, 2005

Borax is a stable chemical and does not hydrolyse in water. In fact, it is used as a reference to calibrate pH meters; a 0.01M solution (3.814 g/l) has a pH of 9.22 at 20C.

When hydroquinone oxidizes in sulfite solution hydroxide ions are produced which raise the pH of the solution. This causes increased film density and contrast. Various modifications of D-76 have been suggested to get around this problem. The best used a combination of borax and boric acid. One D-76d uses 8 grams of each. Kodak seems to use a smaller amount (perhaps 4 grams each) in their packaged D-76.

dancqu · Jun 15, 2005

Gerald Koch said:
"Borax is a stable chemical and does not hydrolyse in water.
In fact, it is used as a reference to calibrate pH meters;
a 0.01M solution (3.814 g/l) has a pH of 9.22 at 20C."

Borax; ph 9.22 at 0.01M. I hope some others see that.
I've always maintained that sodium sulfite is more
alkaline than borax.

"When hydroquinone oxidizes in sulfite solution hydroxide ions
are produced which raise the pH of the solution."

That is only meaningful in the context of when D76 is coming
from; 1927. D76 78 years ago was, I believe, compounded
for large tank and tray processing and intended to be
replenished. For myself, small bottle storage and one
shot use obviate any need for borax. Dan

Good Homebrews for High Speed Film

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