Good 35 mm SLR for teaching photography?

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phenix

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I have to correct a mistake I made in my previous post. The "s" in Ricoh XR-1s and XR-2s doesn't stay for hotshue vs. coldshue. With or without the "s" in their name, all Ricoh SLR have hotshues. The "s" stays for the coupling system on the bottom of these cameras, who accepts an external motor drive powered by 4AA bateries.
 
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Stevopedia

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Jeez, you guys... I wish I had the money to afford half of what's been mentioned...

I'd love to get my hands on a Nikon F2 or Canon F1 or Pentax KX or LX one day. But for me even a $100 US purchase is a little much for me (I'm 17, in high school, and unemployed. :rolleyes: )

But anyways, my two cents on my own question:

Either a Spotmatic or a Pentax KX or MX. Granted, I'm a Pentax fan, but like the Nikon system you can use all K-mount lenses on all K-mount cameras, from 1975 to 2008, and even M42 lenses on K-mount cameras with an adapter. Plus Pentax lenses are of high optical and build quality and are relatively cheap.

FWIW, I've got a K1000 SE and an AE-1, both of which came from relatives (the cameras had been sitting unused) with lenses and bags, for the right price: free! :D I've been using the K1000 in a photography class I'm taking at school.
 

phenix

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I would say that you should seriouselly consider a Ricoh XR-2/s or XR-7 or their Sears twins (both with aperture priority, as you already have the mechanical K1000). Just take a look at their specs/manuals at Butkus (I posted the link here above), you'll be amazed! These are Pro models: the single feature they lake is the interchangeable focussing screen, and the XR-2/s does not have an AE-lock, but the XR-7 does it. For the rest, just name the features you are looking for, and they have them all (multi-exposures, DOF, mirror lock-up, etc.)! And if you hunt on eBay a little bit, you could get one of these for $40-50 (possible with a lens).
 
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Mark Antony

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Jeez, you guys... I wish I had the money to afford half of what's been mentioned...

I'd love to get my hands on a Nikon F2 or Canon F1 or Pentax KX or LX one day. But for me even a $100 US purchase is a little much for me (I'm 17, in high school, and unemployed. :rolleyes: )
.

LOL
I've seen quite a few F2s going for less than $100. Ebay has a few right now.
But if you're 17 and unemployed, do what I did, deliver papers and mow lawns, get some cash- buy a camera.
If you are unwilling to do that a cheap Praktica MTL 3 and M42 screw lenses (buy Pentax Takumar) will cost about $10-20.
http://www.praktica-collector.de/200_Praktica_MTL3.htm
Should be enough to get you started.
 
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2F/2F

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Something from the big two

I suggest a Nikon F or F-2, or a Canon F-1 (old) or FTb, and a 50mm f/1.4 brand-name lens. The same reason I suggest everyone learn to drive in a car with manual everything: to strip away the excess and be in constant physical and mental contact with the raw basics.

IMO, Canon has the far superior metering system (built into the body, 12% patch that takes 100% of reading, while Nikons were equipped with optional averaging or center-weighted averaging meters, which have to be properly coupled to your lenses and usually don't work these days anyhow), and Canons are more simple to control with very limited knowledge, and changing lenses is a breeze. All you have on the camera are a few basic controls. They also have what I believe to be a superior lens system, with certain fast lenses that Nikon never had. Of course, this is only a make or break issue for those doing low light stuff, where half a stop does matter. For your run of the mill student, the differences in the lens systems between the two brands is negligible.

I find AE-1s to be confusing, personally, and a poor choice for establishing a solid foundation. They are fine cameras, but require an intelligent and highly disciplined approach to really get the basics down, since they are so dumbed down compared to an F-1. In order to use an AE-1 intelligently, you really need to be coming from a manual camera anyhow.

They are fine cameras, and can get the exact same results as any pro model...but they do not support rigorous study of the technical basics. They were and always will be more of a convenience for the masses rather than a thinking person's camera. Please don't take this the wrong way. They can be masterfully controlled as well as a pro body by someone who ALREADY knows what they are doing, but are simply not the best learning tools, IMO.

The huge benefit of Nikons is their availability, and lens compatibility. Canon FD is an excellent but orphaned system.

I am a Canon FD guy at heart, but I absolutely love my Nikon F. I have a hard time recommending one over the other...but I love being able to adapt my lenses to a wide variety of other systems...which you CANNOT do with Canon FD. I also prefer the Nikon rotation of the focusing collar and aperture control ring vs. Canon/Leica/Minolta, etc. It is more intuitive for me going right for infinity and right to stop down.

In short, if the beginner will also be using digital some day, I would just suck up the lens speed disadvantages of the Nikon system and go for a pro-level Nikon (F or F2) with AI lenses.

If the beginner wants a heck of a deal, needs the fastest of the fast lenses, and doesn't mind an orphaned system, Canon FD can't be beat. Nor can Nikon Fs for bang for the buck on the used market...but their straight F lenses (AKA NAI or pre AI) are also an orphaned line, unless converted (or used on the D40 or D40x with manual aperture and no meter). Later lenses can be used on the F bodies, however.

Any other brand doesn't offer anything that Canon or Nikon don't, IMO. Great cameras from several other brands, but not much point unless one gets an EXTREMELY good deal. Having a total system counts for a lot, and only Nikon and Canon have extremely extensive ones.

I also highly suggest pro bodies. At this point, they are so similar in price to amateur bodies that the difference in price is worth paying in order to get the extra features/extended system compatibility.

Quite honestly, the basic differences amount to nothing. A smart person will get great pix with either, and vice versa. Just try to think of them as educational tools. You don't necessarily want the easiest-to-use camera or the camera that simply gives you acceptable pix most of the time via automation. You want the camera that teaches you the most. This is usually the camera that makes you work the most and think the most. It all boils down to time and effort devoted in the end, no matter what you use. No matter what you have, you have to work a lot, spend a lot, and study a lot...and be disappointed a lot, but be able to recover.

You can easily get an FTb and 1.4 lens for $100. Nikon F with a 1.4, probably $100 to $125. At that price for an F, no sense at all in getting a lower-end model. Canon F-1 or Nikon F-2...a bit more. Maybe $200 to $350 depending on condition. I got lucky and bought an F-1 with a Vivitar Series 1 28-90 f/2.8-3.5 macro for $99 in a pawn shop.

2F/2F
 
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2F/2F

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Hey, wait a minute...I just read your last response and now feel a bit foolish. Myself and all these other people spent all this time responding...and you already have two cameras that are just fine! :confused: In general, nothing is better than what one already has....
 
OP
OP

Stevopedia

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Hey, wait a minute...I just read your last response and now feel a bit foolish. Myself and all these other people spent all this time responding...and you already have two cameras that are just fine! :confused: In general, nothing is better than what one already has....

You know what I really need?

A darkroom. Even a makeshift one will do.
 
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bobwysiwyg

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This question has long been answered I assume, but the best camera I had to learn on, and presumably good for teaching, was my first 35mm. It was an Asahi Pentax SV which I still have. It it did absolutely nothing for you, entirely manual. You had to learn to use a separate, handheld light meter (a cheap selenium one at that) and set your own f-stop. I can't imagine there are many around yet (not to be confused with valuable:wink:), but a solid camera for sure. All the mechanicals on mine work fine, and the lens movement is still silky smooth.
 

dynachrome

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I have a K1000 but it lacks a depth of field preview lever so I don't think it's as good a teaching tool as some others. The funny thing about K mount lenses is that plenty were made but many interesting ones are being bought up by people who have K mount DSLRs. The K1000, like other mechanical cameras, has not been made for some time and really needs an overhaul before you can rely on the shutter speeds to be close to correct. If paying $100 to have one of these overhauled is too much then the Vivitar V4000 or V4000S are nice because they cost from $10 to $25, have the same K mount and have a sensitive and reliable meter system. Unfortunately they do not have depth of field preview levers either.

Minolta SRT-101s are nice as are Canon FTb, FTbN, TLb and TX. All of these need MR-9 adapters to replace the mercury cells which are no longer available. These are all mechanical cameras with horizontally running cloth shutters and thay all have 1/60 flash synch speeds. My favorite camera class model might be the Nikkormat FT2. It has a depth of field button, takes available MS-76 batteries and will work equally well with pre-AI and AI/AIS lenses which have the metering prong. Indexing the lens each time takes a little getting used to. The flash synch speed is 1/125 and the shutter is a metal bladed verticaly running Copal Square.

If Craigslist is available where you are it might be possible for you to get an enlarger for free. You would just have to pick it up. Enlargers are often found with other darkroom items like trays, tongs etc.
 

nsurit

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An all manual 35mm, with no "MR. Automatic." My weapon of choice is the Olympus OM 1 or 1n. I have about 16 of them that I use with a basic photography class I teach. Bill Barber
 
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