Gold toner. Which one?

mrtoml · Apr 27, 2008

I am about to start experimenting with Gold toner. It's expensive stuff and there is a variety to choose from.

I have sourced the following options in the UK:

Moersch MT6 1l with 25ml Gold Chloride replenisher £38
Tetenal 1l £26
Fotospeed 1l £26

I am intrigued by the Moersch one. Is it better value to use this with the replenisher? Are there any differences in the performance of these brands? Or is there a better alternative than those mentioned?

If it makes a difference: I am using in the main Fomabrom and Ilford MG WT fibre papers. I am also planning to use Fomatone, but haven't tried it yet. I am also planning to do dual sepia and gold prints as well as just gold.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Ian Grant · Apr 27, 2008

It's far cheaper to make up your own Gold toner solutions. There are plenty of formulae published.

Ian

dancqu · Apr 27, 2008

Ian Grant said:
It's far cheaper to make up your own Gold toner solutions.
There are plenty of formulae published. Ian

A gram of Gold will go a LOT farther with Nelson's
than any other Gold toner. Dan

mrtoml · Apr 27, 2008

Where do you get Gold Chloride from in the UK? No-one I know of seems to list it. There was a thread about this recently as I recall.

Ian Grant · Apr 27, 2008

I have 5 gms for sale, see the Classifieds here

Ian

mrtoml · Apr 27, 2008

I'm looking into this, Ian. Nice sales pitch

Before I commit myself I am looking at the toning formula GAF 231 in Tim Rudman's book. It only requires Gold Chloride and Ammonium Thiocyanate. At the moment the Nelson toner looks like too much hassle. Is the GAF 231 formula pretty standard?

If it is then it would cost to make a litre of toner about £8 for the thiocyanate and at your price about £11 for the gold chloride required (60ml 1% solution) plus extra for the distilled water and postage costs. It then doesn't work out all that much cheaper than just buying it ready made. Or am I missing something? (I would also have to buy some scales, but that is on my list of necessary items anyway.)

I am assuming that the GAF 231 has a lot more capacity than the off the shelf toners?

Ian Grant · Apr 27, 2008

Gold chloride is far cheaper in bulk, so the price for 100 gms is significantly less per gram than in 1gm or 5 gram quantities.

The price of Gold and therefore Gold Chloride has risen rapidly in the past few weeks, so 1gmm from The Formulary was $47.95 a few weeks ago it's now $57.95. So expect the price of the commercial toners to rise significantly too.

I have a small supply of powdered fine Gold so usually make my own Gold Chloride and toners from that.

The Formula I've always used is Ilford IT-4

Ammonium Thiocyanate 20g
Gold Chloride 1g
Water to 1 litre

This will give very similar results to the Agfa (Ansco) 231 formula, but uses a lot less thiocyante.

Ian

mrtoml · Apr 27, 2008

Ian Grant said:
Gold chloride is far cheaper in bulk, so the price for 100 gms is significantly less per gram than in 1gm or 5 gram quantities.

The price of Gold and therefore Gold Chloride has risen rapidly in the past few weeks, so 1gmm from The Formulary was $47.95 a few weeks ago it's now $57.95. So expect the price of the commercial toners to rise significantly too.

I have a small supply of powdered fine Gold so usually make my own Gold Chloride and toners from that.

The Formula I've always used is Ilford IT-4

Ammonium Thiocyanate 20g
Gold Chloride 1g
Water to 1 litre

This will give very similar results to the Agfa (Ansco) 231 formula, but uses a lot less thiocyante.

Ian

Thanks. That formula now makes a lot more economic sense. I'll PM you.

Dave Miller · Apr 27, 2008

Excuse me for being a bit thick, but!!!!
If Gold Chloride is $50 a gramme and makes one litre and Tetenal Gold Toner is $50 a litre off the shelf, just where does the saving kick in? :confused:

mrtoml · Apr 27, 2008

Dave Miller said:
Excuse me for being a bit thick, but!!!!
If Gold Chloride is $50 a gramme and makes one litre and Tetenal Gold Toner is $50 a litre off the shelf, just where does the saving kick in? :confused:

That's my issue as well. Ian is selling the stuff at $38 so it works out cheaper if the Thiocyanate is cut back, but at current retail prices of $50/gramme it is easier to buy it ready made if it is indeed the same stuff at the end of the day.

If Ian is right and the prices are going to go up then it may be a good idea to stock up now if you use a lot.

Ian Grant · Apr 27, 2008

If the Tetenal Gold toner is similar to Agfa 231 it would only contain 0.6 gms of Gold per litre, so there's a significant saving already, and the Tetenal Gold toner will soon have to go up in price to reflect the very significant recent rises in the price of Gold.

Ian

dancqu · Apr 27, 2008

mrtoml said:
At the moment the Nelson toner looks like too much
hassle. Is the GAF 231 formula pretty standard?

Nelson's gives warm tones. If cold is what you are after
another toner will have to do. Nelson's is essentially a hypo
alum toner without the alum. It is a sulfide toner modified
by the presence of gold.

I believe the gold works catalytically altering the tone and
allowing a lower toning temperature than hypo-alum. The
amount of gold per print is infinitesimally small. Yet is
termed a Gold toner. The archival benefits of sulfide
without the sepia tone. Dan

mrtoml · Apr 28, 2008

dancqu said:
Nelson's gives warm tones. If cold is what you are after
another toner will have to do. Nelson's is essentially a hypo
alum toner without the alum. It is a sulfide toner modified
by the presence of gold.

I believe the gold works catalytically altering the tone and
allowing a lower toning temperature than hypo-alum. The
amount of gold per print is infinitesimally small. Yet is
termed a Gold toner. The archival benefits of sulfide
without the sepia tone. Dan

Thanks, Dan.

I'm just looking for a gold toner that will produce cool blue tones used by itself, and warm red/pink tones when used with sepia with the possibilities of nice split tones. Sounds like Nelson's is not the one I am after.

dancqu · Apr 28, 2008

mrtoml said:
Thanks, Dan. I'm just looking for a gold toner that will produce
cool blue tones used by itself, and warm red/pink tones when
used with sepia with the possibilities of nice split tones.
Sounds like Nelson's is not the one I am after.

Learned something new; a group of gold toners of a type
I'd not known. Alkaline Gold Toners. A wee bit of gold plus
a pinch of some alkali in a liter of water and you've a gold
toner. A POP site has a list of such formulas.

I'll bet Mr. Rudman or other knowledgable soul could fill
in a few details. Nothing but formula and basic how to
at the site. Dan

Gold toner. Which one?

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