Going stainless ?

Laurent · Nov 13, 2023

Hello all,

I may be thinking too much at the moment, but since I'm still getting foam trouble with my film development, and my Jobo reels are aging and become scratchy, I'm contemplating moving to stainless ones.

They should be easier to keep tidy, and apart from falling on the floor, more durable.

I'm looking at some used Kindermann at the moment, and started practicing with two reels I was given some time ago.

Am I crazy, or is this the way to go ?

(One thing I consider is that my Jobo 15xx system may go for the same amount I'd have to spend buying used reels and tanks, so it could be a zero sum upgrade)

Mark J · Nov 13, 2023

Which film format ?

Saganich · Nov 13, 2023

Foam may not be a plastic issue. I have to be careful with all my stainless, for example I never let photoflo touch any tanks or reels but still have foam issues occasionally. Scrubbing reels and tanks with just water and a good clean brush that never has seen detergent works well. Takes some practice loading ss reels, but once familiar loading takes about 30 seconds. Get high end reels, you will regret it otherwise. One drop to the floor and the reel is likely done for. I've been using the same 6 reels for 20 years. The plastic lids to the tanks can crack with age along the top and leak on inversion, but that's the only issue in 20 years.

Lachlan Young · Nov 13, 2023

Paterson tanks/ reels have usually been the best I've found for even processing without various headaches. Stainless reels/ tanks are worse than Jobo at just about everything apart from the ability to load while soaking wet & jam more reels in per deep tank run.

'Foam' problems are either insufficiently clean reels, or not getting the film fully immersed fast enough before starting the first agitation cycle (the first 30s-1m of development is critical in terms of getting full immersion and sufficient agitation). Stainless reels in small tanks are the worst offenders of the lot for this unless you pre-fill the tank, plunge the loaded reel in in the dark, cap the tank and get agitating (I'd advocate for this with your Jobo 15xx too). The 3 smaller sizes of Paterson tanks are very good because the funnel size is big enough for you to dump the required amount of chemistry in, slam the lid on and get agitating.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 13, 2023

My steel tanks have steel lids, and they leak a little too when you invert the tank. At least the old ones do; the fit just isn't as close as when they were new. My big tank was already pretty old when I got it.

One drop to the floor and the reel is likely done for.

I wouldn't be quite that pessimistic.

Vaughn · Nov 13, 2023

Hewes -- get those SS reels if you go that direction. Both 35mm and 120. Better construction,

GregY · Nov 13, 2023

Laurent said:
Hello all,

I may be thinking too much at the moment, but since I'm still getting foam trouble with my film development, and my Jobo reels are aging and become scratchy, I'm contemplating moving to stainless ones.

They should be easier to keep tidy, and apart from falling on the floor, more durable.

I'm looking at some used Kindermann at the moment, and started practicing with two reels I was given some time ago.

Am I crazy, or is this the way to go ?

(One thing I consider is that my Jobo 15xx system may go for the same amount I'd have to spend buying used reels and tanks, so it could be a zero sum upgrade)

These Kinderman reels are my favourite. As good as the other "best" (Nikor, or Hewes)... & their proprietary loaders work very well. I have a bunch of them in both 120 & 35

grain elevator · Nov 13, 2023

I haven't had foam issues with Paterson reels. Steel reel seem ridiculously expensive in Europe.

JerseyDoug · Nov 13, 2023

I have found 35mm Hewes stainless reels to be very easy to load. And Kinderman stainless tanks don't leak at all, even with generic replacement caps. They are all I have used for 35mm for many years.

For me anyway, 120 reels are another story. I never got on with Nikor or Hewes 120 stainless reels or with Paterson 120 plastic reels. I have found 120 Samigon plastic reels, that fit Paterson tanks, to be very easy to load. I believe the same reels were also sold under the AP name.

MattKing · Nov 13, 2023

Vaughn said:
Hewes -- get those SS reels if you go that direction. Both 35mm and 120. Better construction,

There are/were Hewes steel reels that fit some JOBO tanks.

Ballinderry-Michael · Nov 13, 2023

Lachlan Young said:
Paterson tanks/ reels have usually been the best I've found for even processing without various headaches. Stainless reels/ tanks are worse than Jobo at just about everything apart from the ability to load while soaking wet & jam more reels in per deep tank run.

'Foam' problems are either insufficiently clean reels, or not getting the film fully immersed fast enough before starting the first agitation cycle (the first 30s-1m of development is critical in terms of getting full immersion and sufficient agitation). Stainless reels in small tanks are the worst offenders of the lot for this unless you pre-fill the tank, plunge the loaded reel in in the dark, cap the tank and get agitating (I'd advocate for this with your Jobo 15xx too). The 3 smaller sizes of Paterson tanks are very good because the funnel size is big enough for you to dump the required amount of chemistry in, slam the lid on and get agitating.

I honestly can't identify with those experiences. The only films that give me loading problems are Rollei: I use a Jobo tank for those and S/S for everything else (35mm and 120). If you tip the tank gently when filling it, it doesn't bubble and fills more quickly.

[note: I do have a loading guide which I normally don't bother with. This thread reminds me to try loading Rollei film through it, as it may domesticate the unruliness of those film bases]

DREW WILEY · Nov 13, 2023

Foam issues have no relation to plastic versus stainless. One variety might be easier to scrub than another, that's all. But I think you'll find typical stainless reels like Nikor harder to load than the Jobo ones. I haven't tried the Kindermann variety, and don't plan to, since I'm perfectly comfortable with Jobo hand-inversion drums.

guangong · Nov 13, 2023

Paterson plastic reels are far superior to the poorly designed Jobo reels for tank development. I have used Nikor and Kinderman for over 50 yrs with no problem. I don’t know if still available after 50 yrs, but for loading 35mm I use a guide that snaps over center of reel; for 120 I use a steel guide that fits in palm of hand.
The steel reels for Minox and Minolta 16, having spiral guide only on one side, are much easier to load than plastic reels.
Foam could be caused by a too vigorous agitation.

Sirius Glass · Nov 13, 2023

I used stainless tanks with the Hewes reels. The reels loaded easily and did not be distorted. Then I moved to the Jobo system and the processing is always great and very consistent from 35mm, to 120 to 4"x5". I suggest that you look for used Jobo reels.

Lachlan Young · Nov 13, 2023

Ballinderry-Michael said:
I honestly can't identify with those experiences. The only films that give me loading problems are Rollei: I use a Jobo tank for those and S/S for everything else (35mm and 120). If you tip the tank gently when filling it, it doesn't bubble and fills more quickly.

[note: I do have a loading guide which I normally don't bother with. This thread reminds me to try loading Rollei film through it, as it may domesticate the unruliness of those film bases]

Nikor themselves stated in their own instructions to fill the tank with developer first, then drop the reels in, then put the lid on & start agitation. They are not fast filling tanks compared to Paterson.

Mark J · Nov 13, 2023

All you hear on the forums these days is 'Hewes'.
I've used some good but non-Hewes stainless reels for 120 for 28 years without any problems.

Dustin McAmera · Nov 13, 2023

Lachlan Young said:
Nikor themselves stated in their own instructions to fill the tank with developer first, then drop the reels in, then put the lid on & start agitation. They are not fast filling tanks compared to Paterson.

Kodak also say to do that, in the tech sheet for Tri-X. Ilford's 'developing your first film' instructions have you load the tank then pour the developer in.

I have always poured the developer in. I don't have anywhere dark enough to do the other way. In any case, I wouldn't trust myself with a full open tank of solution in the dark.

I worry (a little) about the pouring-in time. It is a lot longer than with a Paterson tank (which I also have; but I have been let down too often by their spirals). I time between when I start pouring in and when I start pouring out, and I have slightly adjusted the times I used when that wasn't quite right. So my times work (ish) for that method; but then the pouring time is less for my smaller tank; and I don't have an adjustment for that.

Rob Skeoch · Nov 13, 2023

I did a few videos on steel tanks and reels which might or might not be useful to you.

video on the tanks....

video on the reels and loading...

Chuck1 · Nov 13, 2023

I like hewes.
I do a water pre soak,
Loading wet reels never occurred to me, but I wouldn't do it, seems like asking for scratches.

DREW WILEY · Nov 13, 2023

guangong - in this area, I've heard nothing but complaints when people try switching from Jobo to Paterson, and only because Paterson are easier to acquire and a lot more affordable now. The Pattersons don't seem to last anywhere near as long either. But who knows if people are buying genuine versions of either, or inferior import knockoffs. I'll just state that I've been using the same Jobo inversion drums for several decades now, and that they still perform superbly, and that I have no trouble loading their 120 system at least. I do have headaches will the 35mm spool if long 36-exposure rolls are involved, but not 24 exp ones.
I shoot and process 120 roll film all the time, but 35mm only a few times a year.

I get foam only in one scenario : TMY400 film developed in PMK pyro, and only in inversion drums, never in tray development of sheet film. And I certainly don't over-agitate. The foam doesn't seem to affect the evenness of development at all. I have no explanation for it.

Laurent · Nov 13, 2023

Thanks all for your replies, this gives me food for thought!

@Rob Skeoch I did not know your Youtube channel, I'll give it some attention. Already had a look at your videos about the steel reels,very helpful for getting started.

My foam issue is related to "photoflo" (the Mirasol one) and I have the feeling no cleaning can get rid of it. Chlorine seems to help but I have to let the reels several hours in it after every few uses, and I don't really like it. I've tried agitation with water only, and even this gave me foaming. I ruined a few films with that, so now I leave at least the equivalent of one 120 reel of empty space at the top, so that the foam does not interfere with developer.

I'll give steel a try with some reels before committing to it, and will see what it feels like.

Anon Ymous · Nov 13, 2023

Laurent said:
My foam issue is related to "photoflo" (the Mirasol one) and I have the feeling no cleaning can get rid of it.

FWIW, I always remove the film from the reel before dipping it in photoflo. I break my Jobo reel and dump the film in the solution, not the reel with the film. I get no foaming.

rcphoto · Nov 13, 2023

I photo-flo my film in my reels in my tanks and don’t have an issue with foaming. If your photo-flo is foaming to the point it’s affecting film, you’re likely not diluting it properly.

Augustus Caesar · Nov 13, 2023

Genuine Paterson tanks and reels are very good. I have been using them for more than 50 years (the same ones)!

GregY · Nov 13, 2023

rcphoto said:
I photo-flo my film in my reels in my tanks and don’t have an issue with foaming. If your photo-flo is foaming to the point it’s affecting film, you’re likely not diluting it properly.

Likewise, but i keep a plastic tank for washing w photo flo, & don't use it for developing.

Going stainless ?

Laurent

Mark J

Saganich

Lachlan Young

Dustin McAmera

Vaughn

GregY

grain elevator

JerseyDoug

MattKing

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Ballinderry-Michael

DREW WILEY

guangong

Sirius Glass

Lachlan Young

Mark J

Dustin McAmera

Rob Skeoch

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Chuck1

DREW WILEY

Laurent

Anon Ymous

rcphoto

Augustus Caesar

GregY

Going stainless ?

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