Goin' green in the darkroom!

RalphLambrecht said:

I think with this you're back to the flow-rate problem, and don't even think about making consistent exposures when this thing kicks in.

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A very good point about a local "brown out" when either type of heater kicks in (assuming it's on the same circuit as enlarger). Best way to address would be to put water heater on it's own circuit. Another way to deal with this would be to switch off the water heater when using enlarger (this would only work with tank type), relying on the tank as a reservoir of hot water.

mgb74 said:

A very good point about a local "brown out" when either type of heater kicks in (assuming it's on the same circuit as enlarger). Best way to address would be to put water heater on it's own circuit. Another way to deal with this would be to switch off the water heater when using enlarger (this would only work with tank type), relying on the tank as a reservoir of hot water.

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I just don't know enough about electricity, so I have one question:

Is putting the water heater onto its own circuit sufficient to stabilize the enlarger voltage on a different circuit if both are on the same fuse box?

I learned some habbits from an old graphics art printer. He would fill his sink a home made galvanized steel affair - about 2' wide, 8' long, with about 3' of tempered water, and leave an overflow strainer in the drain in the corner to maintain the water level.

The sink sat on a layer of high density foam insulation, but it would loose temp over time, gradually.

When it was time to develop a panchro film (and I mean like 16x20 or so) before setting the time he would be sure the dev tray (stainless, floating in the water bath) and water bath were the same temp, and then adjust the needed developing time per a dial calculator from a Kodak darkroom dataguide.

20C/68F is not a necessity, but consistency near 20C/68F is rather convnient. The large water bath meant that temp drift during the critical parts during total darkness flipping films in the tray the calculated time would not need to be changed.

I have a little hot pot which is sufficient to get distilled water to temperature for presoak and development, but not for wash. My understanding is that cold water is fine for washing films, so long as it's not 70f to 45-50f immediately. I could probably step it down with hot water mixed with cold tap, maybe in 5f increments.

I'll look into the electric tank, 2.5 gal should be plenty.

Rich Ullsmith said:

... My understanding is that cold water is fine for washing films ...

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Washing efficiency increases with water temperature, but a temperature between 20-25°C (68-77°F) is ideal. Higher washing temperatures soften the film emulsion and make it prone to handling damage. The wash water is best kept within 3°C of the film processing temperature to avoid reticulation, which is a distortion of the emulsion, caused by sudden changes in temperature. If you are unable to heat the wash water, prepare an intermediate water bath to provide a more gradual temperature change. If the water temperature falls below 20°C (68°F), increase the washing time and verify the washing efficiency through testing. Avoid washing temperatures below 10°C (50°F).

RalphLambrecht said:

I just don't know enough about electricity, so I have one question:

Is putting the water heater onto its own circuit sufficient to stabilize the enlarger voltage on a different circuit if both are on the same fuse box?

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Depends. Size of wire, size of main box (in terms of amperage), total loads.

Generally, IMHO, in a modern home, should not be a problem. I would be interested in what a licensed electrician would say. Of course, if its a problem, you could get a large battery back up (UPS) for the enlarger.

RalphLambrecht said:

I just don't know enough about electricity, so I have one question:

Is putting the water heater onto its own circuit sufficient to stabilize the enlarger voltage on a different circuit if both are on the same fuse box?

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Generally yes. If you have, for example, 150amp service, a 12.5 amp water heater load is not a large % of the total capacity. But if on a 15 amp circuit, it's a very large % of the circuit's capacity.

Also, keep in mind that many enlargers have there own power supply to regulate power to the light source. Generally they reduce voltage so variations in the supply voltage does not have a negative impact.

RalphLambrecht said:

'We choose to go to the moon, and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard.'

John F. Kennedy

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I get the feeling Ralph hasn't had to cut and thread 3/4 inch iron pipe for gas. That's especailly fun when the pipe is run through a crawl space. For tankless water heaters that means the run has to come all the way from the meter. Tankless heaters demand so much gas so quickly they can't be tee'ed to a pre-existing gas line.

And no paying a contractor, that's cheating. Ralph wanted to be challenged, go for it!

RalphLambrecht said:

I just don't know enough about electricity, so I have one question:

Is putting the water heater onto its own circuit sufficient to stabilize the enlarger voltage on a different circuit if both are on the same fuse box?

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The basic answer is no. You will need to have an open circuit in your service panel to install a new dedicated breaker for the heater (if you don't already have one) and then run wire of the appropriate gauge for that amperage circuit to connection for the hot water heater. I recommend a dedicated circuit for this device. Sharing the circuit with other loads means that you will potentially be kicking the breaker often. If you don't know how to do this then just pay someone to do the install for you. It's a pretty common job so it's usually not that expensive.

Having the heater on an independent circuit with it's own breaker will not guarantee any voltage stabalization but it does mean that there is a less likely chance that there will be voltage spikes on that circuit that occur when high current draws occur on a circuit. In short you need your own appropriately sized voltage stabalizer for an enlarger. I use two in my darkroom. One to supply my enlarger (a 250 watt 4x5 Saunders) and one to clean up the current for timers. The Saunders has it's own stabalised power supply and it gets connected down stream from the stabaliser for the enlarger. It's also nice to have a battery backup for the times when you loose your power in the middle of making an exposure on a large sheet of paper.

Used Sola voltage stabalisers can be found if you look around. Most are fused and are industrial strength. Kodak used them a lot in their big automated printers back in the day.

donbga said:

I get the feeling Ralph hasn't had to cut and thread 3/4 inch iron pipe for gas. That's especailly fun when the pipe is run through a crawl space. For tankless water heaters that means the run has to come all the way from the meter. Tankless heaters demand so much gas so quickly they can't be tee'ed to a pre-existing gas line.

And no paying a contractor, that's cheating. Ralph wanted to be challenged, go for it!

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I believe you and you've caught me: gas, electric, water: yes, I need and use a contractor for that. But, I still would not use a short-cut for long-term solutions.

Epilogue. I looked at a 2.5 gallon tank with a rheostat, 115f max. Plug it right into the wall, no dedicated circuit. It's 200 bones, but I should have done this years ago. All I ask from this world is a gallon per minute, at 70f!

Thanks all, for the education.

I put in a 2.5 gallon unit for my darkroom. Generally it works well. I've occasionally run it out of hot water though, usually when cleaning trays and other washing up kinds of things when I'm using mostly hot water. It's not a problem for things like print/film washing, etc.
But, you may want to consider a 5 gallon unit if you have the space, the price difference isn't very much.
Either way, they recover quickly, and if you plumb it to the hot, it will get warmed water from your tankless in the high flow times.

FWIW I bought an Insinkerator, because it has a bronze tank rather than a glass lined steel tank.

Well, the junkyard that is my darkroom is due for its annual decontamination/chem inventory/alignment, what better time to redo a few lines under the sink.