Goerz Dagor's, need some help & info

David Hughes · Jun 27, 2006

I'm talking about 12 & 14 inch lenses.
Whats the difference between golds, gold dots and non golds?

Also the same apparent lenses have several different names on them.
Like :
Goerz Dagor
Goerz Optical co inc Dagor
C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. Dagor

Is there a difference in the lens design or what is the difference if any?

Thanks for any help

jimgalli · Jun 27, 2006

David, there are scores of Dagor's from both sides of the sea for over 100 years. But if we narrow things down to modern coated optics it gets a little simpler.

American Optical Co. Dagor's were all coated beginning some time post WWII. My understanding of the legend is that some time in the late 1960's they started producing the shiny brass "golden" version of the lens with NO optical change. Somewhere around the 8300000 serial #'s they dropped the "American" out of the name and it likely just signals an ownership change. The lenses were the same.

Then about 1978 Schneider Kreuznach bought Goerz and soon after that all the Dagor's were built by Kern Optical in Switzerland. Those are the Gold Dot dagors with serial no.s in the 2000000's, and there are several iterations of those like single coated no filter thread, single coated with filter thread, and finally multi-coated.

For my purposes ANY of the coated Dagor's after WWII made by American Optical Co. and more modern after that, are SUPERB. OK, if you twist my arm I'll admit that my 14" GD single coated does have some of the most amazing contrast rendition I've seen in any of my negs.

David Hughes · Jun 27, 2006

Wow thanks for the info you sir are a book of goerz knowledge.

I can tell you though that I have a 12" Goerz optical co inc with a #822732 serial.
I'm glad to hear the golden version ( Not gold dot ) is of no difference other than cosmetic.

David Hughes · Jun 27, 2006

And these lenses labled

Goerz Dagor
Goerz Optical co inc Dagor
C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. Dagor

Are all the same design, Correct?
I see no physical difference other than the label but I was told the lenses labeled Goerz Dagor where Not coated and possibly the Goerz Optical Co Inc lenses were also not coated....?
The C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. Dagor's came after.
I have no idea if any of this is true and that is what I'm trying to find out.
Anyone?

jimgalli · Jun 27, 2006

David Hughes said:
And these lenses labled

Goerz Dagor
Goerz Optical co inc Dagor
C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. Dagor

Are all the same design, Correct?
I see no physical difference other than the label.

Easy now, first of all I don't claim to be an authority and we may find out I'm wrong, I'm just dumb enough to stick my neck out, second, a LOT of the lenses that just say "Goerz Dagor" are not the equivalent of the others. Another legend and I'd love to learn more, is that Burke and James was able to buy jillions of dagor cells from the early european days which they then mounted and "matched" and sold as 'Berlin Dagor's.' So some of those are the ones that just say Goerz Dagor. Some are terrific, and some are, well, not quite as terrific.

David Hughes · Jun 27, 2006

dang i edited my post before you responded

David Hughes · Jun 27, 2006

Now I have 2 pictures of lenses that are both 12"

Goerz Dagor serial 752587

&
Goerz optical co inc serial 824883

Any Idea what the differance is here

jimgalli · Jun 27, 2006

David Hughes said:
Now I have 2 pictures of lenses that are both 12"

Goerz Dagor serial 752587

&
Goerz optical co inc serial 824883

Any Idea what the differance is here

The earlier numbered one is pre-WWII and won't be coated.

David Hughes · Jun 27, 2006

jimgalli said:
The earlier numbered one is pre-WWII and won't be coated.

Great, this helps.

And you think these are the same lens just a different name
being gold ( Not gold dot ) makes no difference

Goerz Optical co inc Dagor
C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. Dagor

correct?

Thanks again!

jimgalli · Jun 27, 2006

David Hughes said:
Great, this helps.

And you think these are the same lens just a different name
being gold ( Not gold dot ) makes no difference

Goerz Optical co inc Dagor
C.P. Goerz AM. OPT. CO. Dagor

correct?

Thanks again!

That's the way I understand it, but my head may roll. And I'm always interested in learning more.

Dan Fromm · Jun 27, 2006

Um, Jim, I don't know why but I've always doubted that Goerz American Optical Company was the same firm as American Optical Company, maker of, among other things, AO Spencer microscopes. Care to comment?

Cheers,

Dan

jimgalli · Jun 27, 2006

:Heck Dan, I dunno. But in my Nov. 1931 Scientific American magazine that I bought to read an article about Henry Ford, there is an advertisement for "The LOMARA Pocket Microscope" made by C. P. Goerz American Optical Co. And I've seen other early ads for other than camera optical things they made. The piece about Ford was boringly more than typical btw.

Dan Fromm · Jun 27, 2006

Thanks, Jim.

I got curious, used Google. There's an American Optical Company, a big 'un, originally located in Southbridge, MA. Makes all sorts of optical goods. This link http://www.dickwhitney.net/aoscientif.htm will get you to a partial company history, including acquisition of Spencer Lens Co. That's the microscope manufacturer, and the acquisition was after 1931. If you look around around on the site you'll find more on AO and no mention of Goerz. At any rate, I found no mention of Goerz. Incidentally, the former Spencer operation was eventually merged into what's now Leica Microscopy.

I still think the US Goerz operation was Goerz American OC, not Goerz-AOC, if you see what I mean, and had no connection with the much larger and older AO.

Cheers,

Dan

John Kasaian · Jun 30, 2006

Let me add another noodle to the ramen---there was also a Goerz Optical Co. of Inwood NY that made lenses for xerox among others.

I understand that Goerz American Optical Co. was bought and sold several times before it was acquired by Schneider. I don't know if there was an American Optical Company "connection' or not, but i do know I like them---the ones I have anyway.

doughowk · Jun 30, 2006

You might find some information at Camera lens manuals site I have a 19" Artar lens by C.P.Goerz AM. OPT. CO. with serial # 770247, which according to one of the manuals has good ULF coverage. What's the significance of the "dot" (red or gold) in name?

Goerz Dagor's, need some help & info

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