God given gift or just practice?

pdeeh

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My point was rather about how status quos are maintained and newcomers are recruited to support it, and thus defuse the danger of power shifts and accompanying undermining of vested interests.

Ineptitude is by contrast easily controlled ... Or perhaps I mean the inept are ...
 
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cliveh

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pdeeh said:
That observation also explains why the proponents of orthodoxy are always so keen that newcomers "learn the rules before they break them" ...
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I would agree with this, as in the creative world there are no rules.
 

Andrew O'Neill

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I could draw quite well when I was a kid. It all seemed natural to me and kids at school couldn't do it, no matter how hard they tried. I sucked at math. Still do. I tried, practiced, studied, but could only get no higher than a C. Many of my art students are of Asian decent and love Anime. They can draw Anime characters really, really well. Ask them to draw anything else, or even an original Anime character... forget it! Only the truly gifted kids could.

Everyone is born with certain abilities.
 

pdeeh

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Michael R 1974 said:
Well, I suppose. Most "rules" in the world of creativity are meant to be broken, or shouldn't exist anyway. But you generally have the most freedom to be creative when you have fewer technical or skill-related obstacles/limitations.
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I wouldn't disagree with that but then you are on-topic and I have departed somewhat therefrom
 

MattKing

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Ken Nadvornick

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cliveh said:
Bullshit.
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Not bullshit. And you already know that. And I know that you already know that...

Whether one wishes to admit it or not, there is such a thing as a random distribution curve for systems in which a random factor is incorporated. In humans that random factor is driven by random genetic mutations.

While it may be comforting to believe that "all men are created equal" they most certainly are not. And thankfully have never been. With apologies to those with a fundamentally different viewpoint on this, it's these very same random differences, filtered through the sieve of natural selection, that gave rise to the human species in the first place. Were we not all different, we would not be at all. Natural selection only works when there is a preferred selection between unequal choices.

Biologists quietly know this. Demographers also quietly know this. Many other specialists as well. But you will never hear them say so in front of a microphone, except in the most general of terms. They may, by way of example, talk about some puppies being the runt of the litter, but they will never publicly extrapolate beyond that. It would be professional suicide.

It's the Original Sin in Science to assert that particular truth. There is very little upside, but prodigious downside to doing so in the public domain. Best just to allow people to believe that they are all potentially as equal as everyone else. That includes you, Clive. And me. And everyone else reading this. It is what it is.

Michael is absolutely correct here.

Ken
 

Thomas Bertilsson

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I was watching a very interesting documentary about the career and life of drummer Ginger Baker. He claimed that while you could train yourself to be a pretty good drummer by learning technique, but that you either had it or you didn't to be a great drummer.
In his not so humble opinion there were only four other drummers that 'had it' in his lifetime, among them Max Roach, and I forget the names of the others.

Perhaps it takes a genius to know one? I often look at the work of other photographers and I wish I had the personality to do what they do, or the drive to practice like they do. But I often also think that I don't have what it takes to ever become a great photographer. I think I have what it takes to become pretty good.

What makes another photographer great also has to do with whether they got discovered or not, for their work to be recognized. Sometimes that is due to business skills, or luck. Have you ever looked at a completely anonymous and undiscovered photographer's work and thought they were one of the greats?
 
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cliveh

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Ken Nadvornick

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cliveh said:
I believe they are.
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Socratic methodology aside, you conveniently ignored the core justification of the argument...

"Were we not all different, we would not be at all. Natural selection only works when there is a preferred selection between unequal choices."

The key word here being unequal. Assertions of belief without reasoned justifications is merely heresay evidence, inadmissible in court. I've told you why I believe what I stated. How about for once you do the same for your assertion?

Ken
 
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cliveh

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pdeeh

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Ker-ching.

and the dead hand of "Godwin's Law" falls upon the thread ...
 

Truzi

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pdeeh said:
Ker-ching.

and the dead hand of "Godwin's Law" falls upon the thread ...
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I'd always thought Godwin's Law was different on APUG - referring instead to the likelyhood of Kodachrome revival posts.
 

Old-N-Feeble

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I'm not disagreeing with your argument but I do disagree with the terminology. We are all equal... but we are all "different".
 

Ken Nadvornick

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cliveh said:
Didn't Hitler have this viewpoint?
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Yes, he did. And he told us in detail what it was, and more importantly why he held it, thereby affording each of us the opportunity to pass individual judgment on its worth.

You have managed the former, but resist the latter. Am I thus forced to conclude that his viewpoint has more credibility than yours? Even if I disagreed with his?

Ken

[Edit: And just to dot the 'i' for you and keep this on point, the reference was to natural selection, not artificial selection. Artificial selection is how one derives better racehorses. Or better corn...]
 
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pdeeh

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Truzi said:
I'd always thought Godwin's Law was different on APUG - referring instead to the likelyhood of Kodachrome revival posts.
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Superb, Truzi ...
 

analoguey

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Havent read all intervening threads, but if 'nature' or 'talent' were to decide everything - what about the 'physically-challenged' folks who turn out to be better than 'able-bodied' at 'physically demanding' sport? (pistorius being not allowed in the Olympics/world athletics or 'physically-challenged' mountain climbers)

Or Beethoven in his time.

Also that American(I think?) who invented peanut butter for example?

Isnt the concept of "it's only talent or only inborn talent" quite similar to that bit about research in eugenics?


/Edited. Re-worded.
Sent from Tap-a-talk
 
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pdeeh

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the disabled what?
fish?
donkey
aubergine?
person?
 

analoguey

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Weren't we talking about people? I thought with Beethoven and Paralympics, surely, it was evident?

Sent from Tap-a-talk
 

pdeeh

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"what's the view on the Indian who turn out to be geniuses at their preferred work ?"

Doesn't read so nicely does it?
 

analoguey

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Michael R 1974 said:
Once we sink to calling Bryan Adams a gifted singer the thread needs to be nuked.
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Rofl. Gifted 'pop' singer?

pdeeh said:
"what's the view on the Indian who turn out to be geniuses at their preferred work ?"

Doesn't read so nicely does it?
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No. But I'm not quite sure what caused offense(I didn't mean any).
Are you saying 'disabled people' would ring better? Or is your case that I shouldnt be using the word at all?

/NM. Corrected that.

Sent from Tap-a-talk
 
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