God given gift or just practice?

removed account4 · Oct 4, 2014

clive
you can practice anything and be good at it, but very few are great, as if
the ability was IN them ..... there is a difference ...
it is the difference between being a technician and an artist

markbarendt · Oct 4, 2014

I find that for things I am truly interested in, I'm willing to put in the time and give the attention needed, to learn.

Alan Klein · Oct 5, 2014

Oh, if I could sing like Pavarotti. Well, I do sound better in the shower.

OptiKen · Oct 5, 2014

There are many songwriters out there.
Only a few can make us cry.

Alan Klein · Oct 5, 2014

I think the ability to be a good photographer is an illusion. Because the camera does everything technically for you fools you into thinking that you're an artist, that you become one of the few of special ability. But being able to "see" and not just "look" separates the inspirational photographers from the rest of us. I believe that is innate and cannot be taught. The rest of us need the shower stall to improve our ability.

Ken Nadvornick · Oct 5, 2014

Best post yet, Alan.

People need to reread that one nice and slow...

Ken

Old-N-Feeble · Oct 5, 2014

Alan Klein said:
Oh, if I could sing like Pavarotti. Well, I do sound better in the shower.

That's because only you and the water are listening... and the water is running away.

eddie · Oct 5, 2014

Alan Klein said:
I think the ability to be a good photographer is an illusion. Because the camera does everything technically for you fools you into thinking that you're an artist, that you become one of the few of special ability. But being able to "see" and not just "look" separates the inspirational photographers from the rest of us.

While I agree that being able to "see" and not just "look" separates the inspirational photographers from the rest of us, I disagree that the camera does everything for us. Our decisions play an integral part in whether an image is successful. An otherwise ordinary image can be transformed by film/developer/paper choice, toning, hand-coloring, lith printing, and a myriad of other decisions. Being a good photographer is not illusory. It's the ability to take your subject and transform your vision onto the paper.

dpurdy · Oct 5, 2014

There is also the fact that age affects learning. A young child has a much more flexible unformed brain that allows learning of things like language and piano playing and maybe drawing. Then there is the whole left brain right brain thing which clearly does have credence and might be set before birth.
I have a younger brother who can draw photographically as well as play guitar very well. I can't draw like a photograph but I have learned to draw like I draw.. with my own style. I have spent thousands of hours playing guitar and I will never be good at it though I can convince people I am good at it.
Dennis

Mustafa Umut Sarac · Oct 5, 2014

I found an philosophy article last year discussing there are 3 different view of angles for learning and performing at West.

British philosophers defends children have a unwritten blank mind and you can teach everything and get high performance.

Europe continent have a different idea and they believe you can not do everything with every child.

US have mixed ideas from above two.

I think OP was a British guy , my sister was memorizing every car plate she sees when she was 4 and remembers the cars license plate when she saw it somewhere else. She went to Harvard. It took 3 years to memorize the home telephone when it comes to me and I am jobless .

removed account4 · Oct 5, 2014

markbarendt said:
I find that for things I am truly interested in, I'm willing to put in the time and give the attention needed, to learn.

i agree mark
but sometimes having an interest in something and putting forth a herculean effort doesn't really
make one that much better, or half as good as someone who was born with something that they sharpened and honed ...
i mean look at picasso, for example. he had the gift at a very young age. as a teenager he took the exam
to go to the acadamie de beaux arts ... the exam typically takes 2 years to complete, he did it in 2 weeks
and it was the better than any exam they had ever received before him ( and he was the youngest to ever take it ).

i have been drawing and painting since i was old enough to hold a pencil and paint brush, i have spent days and hours practicing
but now, a handful of decades later, i can't draw a straight line with a ruler, my drawings typically have 3 or more perspectives
.. i am terrible ... even though i am truly interested in drawing, painting, rendering &c, but it isn't in my genes.

cliveh · Oct 5, 2014

Interesting replies so far, but I still think that with regard to any skill, practice, practice and more practice will reward more than a so called god given gift.

frank · Oct 5, 2014

cliveh said:
Interesting replies so far, but I still think that with regard to any skill, practice, practice and more practice will reward more than a so called god given gift.

Doesn't my stilted dancer prove that wrong?

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2014

I believe so too, but believe perhaps the inclination to practice might be god-given, and also the decision to make photography the focus of that dedication... Is quite arbitrary.

Xmas · Oct 5, 2014

Im really good at brick laying and plastering, cement mixing etc. And maths to but last more difficult.

Meh at most other things...

cliveh · Oct 5, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
cliveh, it always requires practice and work, but the "gift" determines how far you can get when you do the work.

But does it? Jan van Eyck is probably a good analogy of what I mean.

frank · Oct 5, 2014

It was my desire to become a good guitar player. I have a friend who captivates a room when he begins to play and people sing along. I practiced hard and ended up being able to play chords much cleaner and switch faster than my friend, but I could never put it together to play a song well. There was something missing that I couldn't capture. He had that musical gift that is not present within me. When I start playing, the room quietens for a minute, then people just talk louder. I am musically challenged.

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2014

My friend Leon Olguin explained an artist's continuum, where on the left side of the scale of talent you have beginners, on the right you have the masters. Along the scale are all people in-between.

In music you have to accept the child prodigy exists, thus there is a god-given talent. But most who achieve mastery get there by hard work.

MattKing · Oct 5, 2014

Talent tends to encompass more than just ability to do - it often encompasses ability to appreciate, and to be creative.

I have a good ability to appreciate music, but if you were around when I was younger and trying to learn to play it .........

cliveh · Oct 5, 2014

Bill Burk said:
My friend Leon Olguin explained an artist's continuum, where on the left side of the scale of talent you have beginners, on the right you have the masters. Along the scale are all people in-between.

In music you have to accept the child prodigy exists, thus there is a god-given talent. But most who achieve mastery get there by hard work.

With regards to child prodigy, you often hear about these, but they soon burn out and don't develop into adult prodigy.

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2014

I believe anyone can master any human endeavor, given hard work and dedication.

So I take the opposing position. I'll grant that you can be born with "something" that makes it a lot easier for you though.

frank · Oct 5, 2014

If you accept that some are born with a natural affinity and higher potential for a particular endeavor like drawing, how can you not accept that some are born with a limitation on a particular endeavor?

Of course everyone can improve with practice, but I am certainly limited in how far I can progress with singing and music, even though I appreciate listening to talented performers.

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2014

OK I'll accept that some are hindered.

I've read a story where a hopeful photographer was encouraged by one of his teachers (a familiar name), to become a plumber.

Bill Burk · Oct 5, 2014

Let me put it this way... Do YOU feel like you'll never be able to make it because of some limitation within yourself?

frank · Oct 5, 2014

Bill Burk said:
Let me put it this way... Do YOU feel like you'll never be able to make it because of some limitation within yourself?

In musical performance, yes. That is one way I know that gifts (natural abilities) and limitations exist. I inherited a strong visual eye and visual arts abilities from my father (and my daughter through me) but not his musical abilities (though my daughter did). He could play any tune/song on a harmonica just by hearing it.

God given gift or just practice?

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