Glycin... fresh glycin... what developers to make with it?

PhotoJim · Oct 21, 2005

I just got 100 grams of fresh glycin from Photographer's Formulary. I plan to make up about 5 litres of Ansco 130 stock solution. That leaves me with 45 grams of glycin and it deteriorates by the day...

So... are there any other good formulas that use glycin? Let me know your experiences. I have a good opportunity to experiment.

jim appleyard · Oct 21, 2005

There may be some recipes here on apug, or grab a copy of Anchell's "Darkroom Cookbook"; quite a few in there.

Don't worry, your glycin won't go bad THAT fast.

clay · Oct 21, 2005

Mortensen's Glycin variant film developer for use with his '7-D' approach:
Mortensen Glycin Variant:

water 750 ml
sodium sulfite 19 g
Glycin 4 g
sodium carbonate 19 g
water to make 1000 ml

Soft working fine grain developer. He used it to develop negatives to gamma infinity - so about 2 hours or so for any film. This will work if you place your highlights on Zone V, and don't sweat the shadows. More reasonable would be Tri-X for 12m at 70 degrees. YMMV. This is amazingly sharp and fine grained. Really rocks with that old Verichrome you've been hoarding. Plus-X isn't too bad either.

Wayne · Oct 21, 2005

Make a phenidone version of 130

Bob F. · Oct 21, 2005

You could try the Adams version of 130 (http://www.jackspcs.com/pd130a.htm).

Cheers, Bob.

Wayne · Oct 21, 2005

Make a phenidone Adams version.

c6h6o3 · Oct 21, 2005

Harvey's 777, breakfast of champions. (But you'll need p-phenylenediamine and metol, too.)

df cardwell · Oct 22, 2005

Call me a stick in the mud, but if you're setting off to mix up something new, try some tried and true formulae, and see what they do before venturing off into the unknown.

Bill Troop calls FX-2 the finest glycin formula ever. I'd offer MHO that Troop was making an understatement. It is simple, spectacular, has no bad habits. The one unusual ingredient ( pinakryptol yellow ) can be left out and nobody will no the difference. Check out The Film Developing Cookbook.

AS for Ansco 130, it is undeservedly in the background in these days of Amidol passion. Imagine a developer with all the magic of Amidol without a prima donna's temperament and you get 130. My standard developer is the Adams variation in tandem with the Adams second bath, with carbonate and HQ. But I've always liked 2 bath developers, and shoot a lot of pictures with really long scales. Begin with 130, and see what you can do with it.

Glycin developers can turn black and still be a perfectly viable developer. Have a good time with it.

And have no fear about using the glycin in a hurry: it may turn dark, but still is fine.

HINT: When mixing the 130, add the glycin BEFORE the carbonate. Mix it as well as you can, then add a little carbonate at a time until the glycin disolves. It will be pretty easy.

Second HINT: Get a mortar and pestle. Use it to smush up the inevitable chunks of glycin before you mix the developer. It helps.

have fun

.

cvik · Oct 22, 2005

From http://www.jackspcs.com/chemdesc.htm

GLYCIN
Photographic Formulas: FX-2 Film Developer, FX-11 Film Developer, Raphaelson GPQ Liquid Concentrate, Print Developer 106, Print Developer 130 Adams Version, Kodak D-155 Print Developer, WW-1 Print Developer

MurrayMinchin · Oct 22, 2005

Want a softer soup with less "snap & sizzle" than Ansco 130? The following has the same effect as Ansco 120, but with the longevity and unique qualities of a Glycin developer, it's what I call:

12/15 Developer

Hot tap water................................750 ml
Metol...........................................12 grams
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous)...............36 grams
Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous)..........30 grams
Potasium Bromide (10% solution)........15 cc
Glycin............................................15 grams
Water to make.................................1 litre

I also add 15 ml Benzotriazole in a 2% solution to 1 litre of stock solution.

A good starting point would be to dilute 1:3 and develop for 3 minutes @ 72 degrees. Don't be dismayed when nothing appears on the paper for almost a full minute, and looks like a piece of mushy crap at 2 minutes...that's when the magic starts to happen

I've read that glycin print developers are unique in that increasing a prints development time has minimal effect on the light print values, while lowering the dark values; 12/15 does this for sure. While it does match Ansco 120, it is capable of deep, deep blacks.

I keep my stock and working solutions in aluminized plastic wine bags, the kind with the removable brown spigot. The stock solution is good for at least a year, and the working solution keeps going for month after month after month...although I don't get in the darkroom to print very often

I think commercial makers of developers stopped using Glycin because it lasts so long. They would rather you use their product once and discard (then of course you'd have to buy more) than keep using it for months on end!!!

Murray

Peter Schrager · Oct 22, 2005

Glycin

Murray-I can only add from personal experience that Amidol is probably the ONLY developer that will last for an entire session. I have tried Glycin developers and the "magic" is in the prints and the longevity per printing session is not much longer than my ZoneVI developer. This is for making multiple matched prints. Maybe the real reason the makers of products moved on is because modern materials react different to these older chems.

Amidol will kill any glycin developer in the black dept. and I'll back it up with prints.
Best, Peter

MurrayMinchin · Oct 22, 2005

Hi there Peter,

Because I intended to keep using my developer for months, I had to account for it "running out of gas" as it aged, and to account for temperature variations between seasons. What I did was use the emergence time of the negatives clear edge (this is possible because of how sloooowly 12/15 works in the first minute) and multiply that by a factor of 4.5.

When fresh the emergence time is 40 seconds, and stabilizes after about a month at 48 seconds. I toss it when it gets to 50 seconds. A print made in the first session will match one made 4 months later.

I'm glad you're happy with your Amidol black

Murray

PhotoJim · Oct 22, 2005

Thanks for all the advice. I've used Ansco 130 before, which is why I bought the glycin. However, that's the only developer I've made containing glycin.

I've experimented with a few film developers (D-76/ID-11, Ilfotec HC, Ilfosol S, Rodinal, PMK, Pyrocat HD) so I have some opinions of what I like and what I don't. I haven't done the really careful testing that many of you have probably done, but I know when I look at a negative if I like how the developer worked on it. I prefer tonality and acutance over fineness of grain, even with 35mm.

777 appeals to me; it sounds interesting. I may have to get some P-phenylenediamine and play with it. 12/15 sounds intriguing, too.

I haven't tried Amidol yet, but I've been tempted. I need to convince myself that the cost and inconvenience are worth the benefits.

Wayne · Oct 22, 2005

PhotoJim said:
Thanks for all the advice. I've used Ansco 130 before, which is why I bought the glycin. However, that's the only developer I've made containing glycin.

I've experimented with a few film developers (D-76/ID-11, Ilfotec HC, Ilfosol S, Rodinal, PMK, Pyrocat HD) so I have some opinions of what I like and what I don't. I haven't done the really careful testing that many of you have probably done, but I know when I look at a negative if I like how the developer worked on it. I prefer tonality and acutance over fineness of grain, even with 35mm.

777 appeals to me; it sounds interesting. I may have to get some P-phenylenediamine and play with it. 12/15 sounds intriguing, too.

I haven't tried Amidol yet, but I've been tempted. I need to convince myself that the cost and inconvenience are worth the benefits.

Before (or after) you try Amidol, try what I said or try the Formulary's BW-65 which gives similar results. They claim their formula to give results similar to amidol.

jim appleyard · Oct 22, 2005

I ran across a thread recently (here or photo.net; can't recall) about using glycin for devs. One response was to freeze the leftover glycin powder. Claims it works for him. A search might be of value.

Wayne · Oct 22, 2005

Perhaps one could also make a glycin solution that will keep for a long time.

Ole · Oct 23, 2005

FX-2 uses unly a little glycin, but is the best developer I've tried for stand development. If I'm unsure about exposure, contrast range, or have forgotten what film is in that camera before I shoot the last half of the roll, the film gets 90 minutes in half strength FX-2. Prewash, one inversion, leave for one hour, one inversion, leave for an additional half-hour. Both ISO25 films exposed at 100 and ISO400 films exposed at 100 give easily printable negatives.

Tom Hoskinson · Oct 23, 2005

Wayne said:
Perhaps one could also make a glycin solution that will keep for a long time.

I believe you can. I mixed up a batch of Ansco 130 stock concentrate in TEA about a year ago. Guess I need to test it and see if it is still alive.

BTW there are several Glycin formulations posted in the APUG Chemical Recipes Section - including Ansco 130, FX-2 and Morris Germain's Fine Grain Developer (believed by some to be the original 777).

About Amidol: It is the best developer I have found for my own Azo Contact prints (meaning I prefer the Amidol blacks and general look).

Lachlan Young · Aug 4, 2006

clay said:
Mortensen's Glycin variant film developer for use with his '7-D' approach:
Mortensen Glycin Variant:

water 750 ml
sodium sulfite 19 g
Glycin 4 g
sodium carbonate 19 g
water to make 1000 ml

Soft working fine grain developer. He used it to develop negatives to gamma infinity - so about 2 hours or so for any film. This will work if you place your highlights on Zone V, and don't sweat the shadows. More reasonable would be Tri-X for 12m at 70 degrees. YMMV. This is amazingly sharp and fine grained. Really rocks with that old Verichrome you've been hoarding. Plus-X isn't too bad either.

What would a suitable starting point for Plus-X rated at box speed and at 20C/68F?

All help much appreciated,

Lachlan

Gerald Koch · Aug 4, 2006

clay said:
Mortensen's Glycin variant film developer for use with his '7-D' approach:
Mortensen Glycin Variant:

water 750 ml
sodium sulfite 19 g
Glycin 4 g
sodium carbonate 19 g
water to make 1000 ml

Soft working fine grain developer. He used it to develop negatives to gamma infinity - so about 2 hours or so for any film. This will work if you place your highlights on Zone V, and don't sweat the shadows. More reasonable would be Tri-X for 12m at 70 degrees. YMMV. This is amazingly sharp and fine grained. Really rocks with that old Verichrome you've been hoarding. Plus-X isn't too bad either.

This formula appears in Mortensen's book Monsters and Madonnas.

Tom Hoskinson · Aug 4, 2006

Agfa 8: Slow and clean working Glycin based film developer, gives smooth skin tones, works well as a stand developer and has good keeping properties.

Development time starting point: 10 - 12 minutes @ 20ºC with minimal torus inversion agitation in a small tank.

Water at 52ºC 500ml
Sodium Sulfite - 12.5g
Glycin - 2g
Potassium Carbonate - 25g
Cool Water to make 1 liter

sanking · Aug 5, 2006

PhotoJim said:
I just got 100 grams of fresh glycin from Photographer's Formulary. I plan to make up about 5 litres of Ansco 130 stock solution. That leaves me with 45 grams of glycin and it deteriorates by the day...

So... are there any other good formulas that use glycin? Let me know your experiences. I have a good opportunity to experiment.

You could store the glycin you don't use in the freezer. At room temperature glycin goes bad much faster than other reducers. However, in the freezer it will last for months.

Just for the record, I have found that Ansco 130 has very good keeping qualities, and gives great results with AZO. Unless you need water bath control of course.

Sandy King

juan · Aug 5, 2006

I'll confirm what Sandy says about glycin in the freezer. I kept some frozen for two years- original bottle from PF inside a freezer bag. I recently mixed up a film developer with glycin as the only developing agent, and it worked just fine.
juan

tony lockerbie · Aug 5, 2006

I use D130 quite a lot and find it an excellent warm tone develpoer. Mine always mixes up really dark, like a short black but still works fine.

I agree that Amidol gives blacks par excellence but who can afford it these days?

Cheers, Tony

Christiaan Phleger · Aug 5, 2006

Agfa 8

What would be the conversion for Agfa 8 if you were to replace the Potassium Carbonate with Sodium Carbonate?

Glycin... fresh glycin... what developers to make with it?

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