Glycin anyone?

dancqu · Mar 25, 2007

glbeas said:
I found a couple of glycin formulas in a book by Wall and
Jordan.Seems a bit different from the others posted here.
This one didn't have a name or any other designation.
Water 1000cc
Sodium Sulfite 100g
Trisodium phosphate 125g
Glycin 25g
Potassium Bromide 3g
This is the first time I've seen TSP in a developer formula.

Edwal 102 to make 1 liter. 80, 120, 25, and 3. Those in
the above listed order. Dan

glbeas · Mar 25, 2007

dancqu said:
Edwal 102 to make 1 liter. 80, 120, 25, and 3. Those in
the above listed order. Dan

So it's not just a wierd quirk. The TSP is for the alkali component? How does it's activity compare to the standard chemicals?

nworth · Mar 25, 2007

TSP by itself produces a slightly higher pH than sodium carbonate - it's a stronger alkalai, but not as strong as sodium hydroxide. That will usually produce a more vigorous and more contrasty developer, although the contrast is affected by dilution. Mixed with disodium monohydrogen phosphate, TSP can make a very effective buffer in the sodium carbonate range of alkalinity. One reason that TSP has not been used in developers is that it reacts with the alum hardeners in hardening fixers to form an aluminum phosphate sludge that clings to the emulsion. With a non-hardening fixer, it works fine. Another problem is that TSP comes in a number of different hydrated forms, and it can be difficult to figure out the molecular weight for what you have unless it is specifically stated nthe label.

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 25, 2007

eclarke said:
The extra Sodium Carbonate really gives the prints some punch, doesn't it?...EC

Yes, indeed it does!

dancqu · Mar 25, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
Today, I am mixing Ansel Adams version of
Ansco 130 in TEA as a stock concentrate.

Ansel Adams 130/TEA A Solution

Chemical Amount Units
Triethanolamine 150 ml
Metol 2.2 g
Glycin 11 g
Triethanolamine to make 200 ml

Ansel Adams 130/TEA B Solution

Water 700 ml
Sodium sulfite 35 g
Sodium carbonate (mono)* 78 g
Potassium bromide 5.5 g
Water to make 1000 ml

Working solution: 50 ml A + 250 ml B + 700 ml water

Where and when goes in the hydroquinone?
BTW, with TEA at near 5% is that a gloves
or tongs only developer? Dan

dancqu · Mar 25, 2007

glbeas said:
So it's not just a wierd quirk. The TSP is for the
alkali component? How does it's activity compare
to the standard chemicals?

TSP is very alkaline but not so much more than
sodium carbonate; 11.8 vs 11.2 after a quick check.
So a more active developer is to be expected using
TSP. My guess, sodium carbonate will do just as
well with somewhat extended times.

Glycine is similar to hydroquinone; the two of them
needing a high ph environment to be active. I've never
seen a glycine developer with any less than a
carbonate as activator.

Glycine though does not appear to be selective
as is hydroquinone. Once activated it behaves as
does metol. In fact I recall it being referred to
as a high ph metol. Dan

Neanderman · Mar 25, 2007

sanking said:
Absolutely I would be interested, and thanks for asking. I have been planning to experiment a bit with variations of the Pyrocat-HD formula plus glycin and would really like to look at your data.

Post here as I am sure there are a few others who would like to see your results.

Best,

Sandy

Well, this got lost!!! Sorry to be so tardy. What I have is in an Excel spreadsheet -- how do I attach or post this?

Thanks!

Ed

Ole · Mar 25, 2007

dancqu said:
...Glycine is similar to hydroquinone; ...

Dangerous spelling alert: "Glycine" is an amino acid that won't do anything in a developer.
The developing agent is "Glycin" without the "e"!

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 25, 2007

Glycine is a nonpolar amino acid. CAS # 56-40-6
Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the CNS

Photographic Glycin CAS # 122-87-2 (p-hydroxyphenylglycin)

Neblette describes photographic Glycin as "a slow, powerful developer which keeps well in solution." Glycin works well in combination with Metol and Hydroquinone.

dancqu · Mar 26, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
Glycine is a nonpolar amino acid. CAS # 56-40-6
Glycine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the CNS
Photographic Glycin CAS # 122-87-2 (p-hydroxyphenylglycin)

I thought it more English that e added. Wouldn't
you say? I mean what with all those lime'es tuned in.
Make them feel at home.

BTW, how about that post and question,
where is the hydroquinone? #30 this thread.
Your A. Adams TEA A&B 130 has no
hydroquinone. Dan

juan · Mar 26, 2007

The Adams version of 130 has no hydroquinone - that's his variation.
juan

Drew B. · Mar 26, 2007

Glycin anyone? Need you ask....? Give me a double shot.

Bruce Osgood · Mar 26, 2007

juan said:
The Adams version of 130 has no hydroquinone - that's his variation.
juan

I though he (AA) used a 'Part B" hydroquione and sodium sulfite solution adding to the tray solution at will, as needed.

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 26, 2007

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
I though he (AA) used a 'Part B" hydroquione and sodium sulfite solution adding to the tray solution at will, as needed.

My Ansel Adams 130 Variation source: The Print, Ansel Adams, p.191

Also, take a look at: http://www.jackspcs.com/pd130a.htm

Bruce Osgood · Mar 26, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
My Ansel Adams 130 Variation source: The Print, Ansel Adams, p.191

Also, take a look at: http://www.jackspcs.com/pd130a.htm

I refer to Jack's pages a lot.
In the link you refer to headed Print Developer 130 Adams Version; in the first paragraph it states "Hydroquione solution may be added as required". This is from Adams version as stated by Jack.

Further down the page of Adams version is a recipe for the hydroquione solution.

I am assuming that which is attributed to Adams' Version is in fact Adams. Could be wrong. I do not have a copy of The Print.

juan · Mar 26, 2007

That's right, Bruce. The basic Adams variation has no hydroquinone. If you need it, you can add it, but the basic formula, and thus Tom's, don't have it.
juan

dslater · May 3, 2007

Bruce (Camclicker) said:
I though he (AA) used a 'Part B" hydroquione and sodium sulfite solution adding to the tray solution at will, as needed.

Hi Bruce,
I also have "The Print". The way I read it is his Ansco 130 variation without hydroquione is one developer formula. The hydroquione solution is a separate developer that he would optionally add to the working solution to increase contrast, but he didn't necessarily need to add it.

Dan

dancqu · May 4, 2007

dslater said:
Hi Bruce,
I also have "The Print". The way I read it is his Ansco
130 variation without hydroquione is one developer formula.
The hydroquione solution is a separate developer that he would
optionally add to the working solution to increase contrast, but
he didn't necessarily need to add it. Dan

That split Ansco 130 has an Ansco 120 complement. The latter
is the same as Beer's A. Beer's A, Ansco 120, is metol only and
Beer's B hydroquinone only. The A and B in varying proportions
vary the contrast. Really works and not so subtly.
I've used it. VC your Graded Paper. Dan

hka · Nov 30, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
Ansco 130, Variant 1

A Solution
Triethanolamine 130 ml
Metol 4.4 grams
Hydroquinone 22 grams
Glycin 22 grams
Triethanolamine to make 200 ml

B Solution
Water 700 ml
Sodium Sulfite 100 grams
Sodium Carbonate 160 grams
Potassium Bromide 11 grams
Water to 1 liter

Tom,
I am interested in trying your Ansco 130 Variant.
But I'am not sure wich dilution to use?
Can you explain this and how do you mixed up the A Solution. Do I warm up the TEA to 38°C and then pour in the chems. incl. a pince of S.Sulfite before dissolving the Metol?
Thanks.

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 30, 2007

Toms Ansco 130 Variant

hka said:
Tom,
I am interested in trying your Ansco 130 Variant.
But I'am not sure wich dilution to use?
Can you explain this and how do you mixed up the A Solution. Do I warm up the TEA to 38°C and then pour in the chems. incl. a pince of S.Sulfite before dissolving the Metol?
Thanks.

Hi Harry!

Suggested Working solution: 50 ml A + 250 ml B + 700 ml water

To mix the A solution I warmed the TEA to 38°C, poured in the dry chems and mixed with a magnetic stirring mixer until everything was dissolved.

DO NOT put sodium sulfite into the A solution! - - no benefit, and it would be difficult to dissolve. If you want MORE sodium sulfite in the mix, put some more in the B solution.

eclarke · Nov 30, 2007

Tom Hoskinson said:
Hi Harry!

Suggested Working solution: 50 ml A + 250 ml B + 700 ml water

To mix the A solution I warmed the TEA to 38°C, poured in the dry chems and mixed with a magnetic stirring mixer until everything was dissolved.

DO NOT put sodium sulfite into the A solution! - - no benefit, and it would be difficult to dissolve. If you want MORE sodium sulfite in the mix, put some more in the B solution.

My Corning magnetic, heated stirrer may be the best piece of photo equipment I have bought in the last couple years...EC

Tom Hoskinson · Nov 30, 2007

eclarke said:
My Corning magnetic, heated stirrer may be the best piece of photo equipment I have bought in the last couple years...EC

I'm very fond of mine, EC!

Ole · Nov 30, 2007

eclarke said:
My Corning magnetic, heated stirrer may be the best piece of photo equipment I have bought in the last couple years...EC

seconded - or is that "thirded"?

Anyway, there is no better investment for an experimentally minded darkroom worker than a magnetic stirrer. Add heat (thermostat controlled of course) and it's a sure winner. I can't even remember how I got those D76 dry packs to dissolve before, but I'm sure it must have been extremely boring.

PhotoJim · Nov 30, 2007

And where does one get a magnetic stirrer? Sounds like it's well worth a purchase.

Bruce Osgood · Nov 30, 2007

PhotoJim said:
And where does one get a magnetic stirrer? Sounds like it's well worth a purchase.

Here's an Ebay link I check once in a while.

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