Gluing Paper to Aluminium

David Hatton · Nov 2, 2010

Hi All,

I have a need to stick paper to aluminium but I don't care about removing it after I've finished the print. I do not have access to a dry-mount press nor am I likely to have access to such a machine in the forseeable future. I've tried using a household Iron and dry mount tissue;I've tried using a piece of flat marble heated in my wifes oven. Neither approach was popular with her nor did either method work. Bubbles are always the problem underneath the paper. Any ideas or suggestions - a waterproof glue of some kind maybe.:confused:
I look forward to your suggestions
Thanks
David

Loris Medici · Nov 2, 2010

David, how about the PVA based glue "Filli Boya (Caparol) Fil-fix Şeffaf"? I use this (diluted 1+4) as sizing paper in gum printing...

Workflow suggestion: Dilute to desired consistency (I think you'll need to dilute it at least 1+1, even a little more...), apply generously to the back of the paper, place on cleaned and (preferrably) etched or anodized or carborundum treated aluminum (for a little tooth), press / squeege using a clean wide hard rubber roller (wipe the edges with a paper towel) they use for inking etching plates... ???

EDIT: It could help to do it with pre-moistened (not necessarily wet, but pretty damp) paper; it will not want to raise from the surface, that way... (= Easier handling + less chance of having bubbles!)

Regards,
Loris.

David Hatton · Nov 2, 2010

Hi Loris,
Thanks for that. I have some of that PVA but I thought it would lose it's grip when wet. Is it waterproof..?

Loris Medici · Nov 2, 2010

The product I mention is totally waterproof (I use it as sizing, IME it can withstand heavy manipulation with a hard brush...) and pretty strong.

Regards,
Loris.

EDIT: I had a student print 9 (nine! Don't ask why!?...) layers of gum over that with heavy brush manipulation. See the result here... (Notice the whites, they're clean!)

David Hatton · Nov 2, 2010

Ok then I'll give it a try. Thanks. I did try superglue which is activated by moisture (one of my least successful experiments) I was nearly choked and had paper stuck to my hand when I'd finished..!!!!!!
David

Loris Medici · Nov 2, 2010

You may opt to place a blotter paper over the sandwich and then put a heavy glass (and some weight maybe) on top, and leave it that way for a couple of hours... (Or, at least 1/2 hour.)

Good luck!

Loris Medici · Nov 2, 2010

What a horror story, BTW.

rpiontek · Nov 3, 2010

In Germany there is a product from Neschen called Gudy 831. It is a thin film glue which comes in a roll. http://www.neschen.com/page/en/page_ID/1634 it will do exactly what you need it to. I think 3M makes something similar available in the USA. It is not cheap, though, and if you only need to mount one picture it probably isn't worth it to buy an entire roll. 60 euros for a 0.6m X 10m roll is what I pay.

Loris Medici · Nov 3, 2010

Is that waterproof rpiontek? (I think David wants to affix the paper to a dimensionally stable support, in the context of multiple cycle printing / wet processing...)

BTW, David, you may also try 10% gelatin solution or boiled starch glue. (Wheat, corn or rice...)

Regards,
Loris.

rpiontek · Nov 3, 2010

Hmm... I don't know but I would guess it is waterproof.

David Hatton · Nov 3, 2010

rpiontek
Thank you for your suggestion. I don't think I can access that product from here. Thanks anyway
David

rpiontek · Nov 4, 2010

this is similar but different to what I use:

Dead Link Removed

http://www.framingsupplies.com/3M/3MSpecialtyTapes.htm

This product allows you to re-position the art, then you apply pressure and it sticks. The Gudy 831 is very sticky and sticks on contact... you have to be careful with it. Actually here is a link to a US company...

http://www.lightimpressionsdirect.c...adhesive-roll-24-x-33/cold-mounting-adhesive/

Here are other possibilities:

Dead Link Removed

David Hatton · Nov 4, 2010

Thanks for the links. I'll take a look.
David

PVia · Nov 4, 2010

A while ago, I experimented with a Lineco PVA white glue used in bookbinding to attach a piece of Fabriano paper to aluminum. It bonded extremely well and was able to withstand several 30 minute soaks for gum print clearing purposes. At the end of the process, I soaked a bit longer and slightly pried the paper off. It worked great, but the paper definitely had a plasticized back when finished. I never tried it again...but thought I'd throw that bit of info out there.

I had been inspired by Lukas Werth, who makes casein prints. He uses bone glue (pearls) dissolved in water and bonds his paper to a sheet of glass. The paper is removed after the print is complete. His process was detailed in an issue of the Post-Factory Journal.

Loris Medici · Nov 5, 2010

Indeed, but there's a problem (depends on how you look at it) in Lukas' workflow. He has to coat the ("gum") image (I'm not sure about casein; casein may hold better... I'm just mentioning this making the assumption of David is actually interested with gum dichromate printing...) with acrylic medium (or something like that) to "fix" the image, I mean to protect it when you soak the sandwich in hot water to dissolve the unhardened gelatin (bone glue is a - high bloom - grade of gelatin) - in order to remove the paper from the support. And, [the problem(!) is the fact that:] this fixative layer adds considerable gloss to the image - you may like it, or worst, hate it... (There was an exchange - between Lukas and me - about this at APUG, may dig later and provide the link if you like.)

Regards,
Loris.

David Hatton · Nov 5, 2010

Hi Loris,
I tried to find that exchange on APUG but couldn't. Just as a matter of interest, why do you recommend diluting the PVA?
David

Loris Medici · Nov 5, 2010

Me neither... ??? Will look again. (Maybe it was a private exchange - I don't remember...)

About diluting the glue: It's too thick, you may not be able to coat the back of the paper evenly (= bubbles, bumps and whatnot later...) and it may cause too much excess / mess to wipe from the edges... ??? I don't think it's absolutely necessary - do it as you are comfortable.

Regards,
Loris.

PVia · Nov 5, 2010

Loris Medici said:
Indeed, but there's a problem (depends on how you look at it) in Lukas' workflow. He has to coat the ("gum") image (I'm not sure about casein; casein may hold better... I'm just mentioning this making the assumption of David is actually interested with gum dichromate printing...) with acrylic medium (or something like that) to "fix" the image, I mean to protect it when you soak the sandwich in hot water to dissolve the unhardened gelatin (bone glue is a - high bloom - grade of gelatin) - in order to remove the paper from the support. And, [the problem(!) is the fact that:] this fixative layer adds considerable gloss to the image - you may like it, or worst, hate it... (There was an exchange - between Lukas and me - about this at APUG, may dig later and provide the link if you like.)

Regards,
Loris.

Loris, I don't remember anything about that in the PF Journal, however once gum is hardened after the last layer, you can usually soak it for washing purposes without losing pigment...at least in my experience. No...???

Loris Medici · Nov 5, 2010

Well, that's not my experience with *hot* water... Maybe I develop a little less than you do ???

PVia · Nov 5, 2010

I never use hot water for final wash of gum prints...a 45-60 min soak in cold water (68 dgrees thereabouts) should loosen the PVA attached paper...if it works for you at all, that is.

These are all individual experiments, but the anecdotive information is still helpful, IME.

(Lukas doesn't recommend bone glue with aluminum, that's why he uses glass, but I tried it anyway recounted above.)

Loris Medici · Nov 6, 2010

Me neither, the hot water is for the final stage -> where you need to melt the gelatin layer on the back when you're removing paper from the aluminum support. (As I already described...) I would much prefer quick-n-easy PVA for the job BTW...

Loris Medici · Nov 8, 2010

I found it!

Hi all, I found the - previously mentioned - exchange between Lukas and I:

Starts (there was a url link here which no longer exists). (Thread starts (there was a url link here which no longer exists)...)

Regards,
Loris.

David Hatton · Nov 8, 2010

Thanks Loris
David

Loris Medici · Nov 8, 2010

David, I think Lukas was using the products listed below:
(I also think that we have the full line of Talens products here in Istanbul...)

1. Acrylic varnish glossy bottle 75 ml
2. Acrylic varnish matt bottle 75 ml

Regards,
Loris.

P.S. The above is necessary only:

a. You use "unhardened" gelatin as adhesive, and
b. You don't want to leave the paper bound to aluminum when printing's over

If you're going to use PVA, you'll either leave the paper bound to aluminum permanently, or use Paul's suggestion to soak longer and pry the paper from the support. BUT, I don't know how the specific PVA glue that you're going to use will react at all; you may not be able to remove the paper w/o damaging it. Therefore, beware!

Loris Medici · Nov 15, 2010

David, please provide feedback / do a follow up - when you'll have time to test / work with the "new"(!) method.

Regards,
Loris.

Gluing Paper to Aluminium

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