Gloves

I worked in the darkroom for many years without gloves, or tongs for that matter--only using them for the real nasty stuff, or for mixing up chemistry. for regular tray processing, I would just use my hands--but after some years of that, on a daily basis, I developed dermatitis from all the wet time and using neutral pH cleansers at the end of the cycles. I had to go to a dermatologist actually and I still have some problems with that, even though I judiciously use nitrile gloves, and tongs now as well. My hands are just ruined though, when it comes to sensitivity. I have to use steroid creams to control the flare ups, which isn't great, but my hands will crack & bleed and they never heal. lotions and over the counter stuff doesn't work--only avoidance does. didn't use to be that way, but that's what happened. the daily exposure is what did me--so that's why I use gloves--not so much for any paranoia over the chemistry, but just to protect my skin. I can't even wear my wedding band anymore, because moisture and any soap crud might get caught up under it, and causes problems.

so how do you know if you have a problem? it will become unbearable, your skin will have some really nasty, unsightly stuff going on, and it won't heal. when this first happened to me, it took me almost four months to get over it. my hands were a mess, and they just hurt all the time because they were cracked all over the knuckles and in between fingers and stuff. I would wake up in the middle of the night and feel like my hands were burning because they itched so bad, but you can't scratch them because that just makes it even worse. I slept with cotton gloves on with my hands slathered in vaseline. they were so sensitive, that I couldn't use any soaps or cleansers for sure, and I developed a problem with lanolin as well, which I never had. so the only moisturizer I can use on my hands now really is petroleum jelly, which is great at night, but not so great when you're trying to work with negs & prints, so during the day I have to do this juggling act of trying to minimize exposure with really dry skin now as well. so...that's how you'll know..or that's how I found out anyways. bummer--but better than metol poisoning or latex allergy for sure.

Thanks for all your replies.
I shall probably try the Nitrile gloves first as I have to mix up my working solutions. First for a couple of alt processes to get started. For conventional printing I normally use tongs but through my working life in the lab processing B&W paper, I just used my hands, one for the dev and one for the fix (didn't bother with stop) Colour chemistry caused me no bother at all. But we had one employee who couldn't stand colour developer, even a small splash on his bare skin would set up a large rash that would take weeks to heal. I have recently become diabetic and my skin is rather dry so I feel I need gloves just in case.

nn

For those who understand German, an interesting text on allergic potential and toxicity of safety gloves themselves on the site of a major safety glove manufacturer:

http://www.kcl.de/kclweb.nsf/D5A2A9...9E38033056C43D75C12568EB004C7855?OpenDocument

DKT said:

.... bummer--but better than metol poisoning or latex allergy for sure.

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What you describe sounds like a reaction to Metol and not simply dry skin caused by the use of neutral ph hand cleaners. There doesn't seem to be much information about this. According to what I read in "The Darkroom Cookbook (Anchell), less refined Metol has a trace element (can't remember what it's called) that poses a problem - causes dermatitis - and in response this discovery Kodak, for one, proceeded to further refine their formula for Metol (Elon) to remove this trace element. I'm no authority on this subject, I know very little, But I do know that steroid creams, like 0.1% halog, should not be used excessively because they are known to thin the skin - another hazard. Good Luck, I can relate to your discomfort.

I forgot to mention that sea water seems to help and also that there is a vitamine that is believed to be a breakthrough cure (somewhat), I can't remember if it was D or E, I think D (applied topically). I tried E - didn't help much.

Best Regards,

Paul

panastasia said:

What you describe sounds like a reaction to Metol and not simply dry skin caused by the use of neutral ph hand cleaners. There doesn't seem to be much information about this. According to what I read in "The Darkroom Cookbook (Anchell), less refined Metol has a trace element (can't remember what it's called) that poses a problem - causes dermatitis - and in response this discovery Kodak, for one, proceeded to further refine their formula for Metol (Elon) to remove this trace element. I'm no authority on this subject, I know very little, But I do know that steroid creams, like 0.1% halog, should not be used excessively because they are known to thin the skin - another hazard. Good Luck, I can relate to your discomfort.

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thanks--but it's not metol. I went to a dermatologist and did the whole nine yards as far as that goes. it is the cleansers & any kind of more aggressive soap other than just bar soap Dove. That's really the only thing I can use now. Even hand dispenser type soaps found in restrooms etc, will do this to me. I actually did no darkroom work for over a month and a half trying to track the problem down, and this is what it was. It's not that uncommon what I have described--it happens to dishwashers for example, people working in food service or other jobs requiring a lot of immersion in water with cleansers etc. Dishpan hands with a vengence...I am somewhat predisposed--have had problems with eczema off & on for years, just not on my hands like this. I have some severe allergies, etc. so, well, it wasn't a real shocker to get diagnosed this way.

fwiw--I rarely use metol based developers now, I got in the habit of using LPD for example yrs ago working for a place that used to mix up huge 20 gallon drums of the stuff and pipe it out on tap to a huge darkroom. so I got into the habit of using it, and have ever since. Most of the film and paper processing I do is confined to processing tanks or automatic machines--my exposure is fairly limited now. I used to have a Printo set up in my own darkroom, but got rid of that--went back to trays a few years ago, so my tray processing is done on a smaller scale now. It's my "hobby"....

metol poisoning as I understand it, is fairly rare these days. PE might be able to shed some light on this, but as I understand it, the chemicals have been refined to the point where this is not really that much of a problem anymore. I did some occupational safety stuff for work--osha type stuff--which is how I know what little I do about latex allergy. for the photo stuff, one of the sources I had for that was a booklet put out by the NPPA back in the 80s. I have a copy, but I think you can probably order one still. It's called "Making Darkrooms Safe Rooms". Excellent book on safety & health issues for photographers who work in labs. Dr. Richard Henry's book was pretty good in this respect as well, but the NPPA book was a right to know book for employees to deal with employers in terms of setting up labs within the OSHA laws. It's about the best real-life book on darkroom work within the scope of the law, that I've ever seen, and it has a survey of health issues and problems amongst workers as well.

I know about the steroid creams and their longterm use and effects--am not crazy about them, and try to limit my use. It's very hard to not wash your hands ever, which is what I've been told to do. It's also somewhat seasonal--worse of course in the winter when it's drier out, and worse when it's hayfever season etc. Anyone with allergies would understand this--it's like a switch gets turned on, and then the slightest little thing sets off a bad reaction. I would have this problem even if I sat and did scanning all day long. But as I was saying, all that time of working with my hands in trays and all that didn't exactly help. I think I just wore my skin out--the switch opened up & got stuck. In retrospect, I wouldn't do it that way again, but I didn't know any better at the time, since most photographers work with their bare hands in the darkroom to be honest. You're often told to process your hands through the chemistry and the process will neutralize itself. This is just wishful thinking, because a sloppy worker will track residual chemistry back to the dry side no matter how careful they are. I always worked with others who really discriminated against sloppy workers and would often ride them hard to discourage it, so my work environment has often been to be very clean--which led not to obsessive hand washing, but just to trying to keep the wet side wet, and the dry dry. I got into the habit of washing my hands off before returning to the enlarger station, which set up this endless cycle.

I dunno if this story makes sense, but that's what happened.