Gloves

It is my belief that many of our product warnings are there because of some politician wanting to show that he's all about protecting the public. I recently saw a warning on a hair dryer that said "Do NOT Use in Shower!" Here in Germany, where they make Tetenal products, I can't even walk into a store and buy rubbing alcohol, I have to go to an Apotheke and ask for it. The nanny state seems to be very much in charge. They use vinegar for clogged drains, and from what I understand, they don't use bleach in the wash because it enters the waste stream.

I personally don't wear gloves. I develop my sheet film one at a time, and transfer from one tray to the next with my hands. I also use my bare hand printing. Over the course a year, the total cumulative time in the chemicals is maybe 2-5 hours, with no single instance being more than about 5-10 seconds. In between transfers, I dip my hands in water and dry them with a towel. The only problem I have is that when my fingers have small cuts, the fixer will locate them for me! I'm allergic to most metals, even in jewelry, and have no problems.

The issue seems to be that if 1 person has reported trouble, it has to go on the label to prevent lawsuits. Many folks develop a sensitivity to Metol, but not all, and others develop severe allergies to it. Hydroquinone is used in makeup, and fixer is used in a variety of medical and other applications. For most people there are no problems, but it makes sense to protect yourself where possible, or where issues are likely to arise. Risk mitigation is good in theory, and in practice! I don't mix from powder, where other concerns can be raised, but have contacted concentrate without ill effects.

I would suggest everyone evaluate their risk aversion, and make their choice on what they find tolerable levels of risk. Don't judge the bottle by its warning label alone. Research the chemicals and make a choice based on a realistic assessment of the risk, not a political or legal message.

Sorry if this is too long or makes no sense!

BTW, I also literally saw a warning label on a curling iron that said "For External Use Only." Really? That seems to make sense...

Those safety data sheets are made up in a uniform way and will not take into account the usage of that chemical.
The manufacturer editing a label has to find a way to warn of practical threats and still not overlook the general threat an igredient may yield.

I know at Apug are several members who developed an allergy so that they had to stop some processes or even darkroom work at all. So take those warnings of skin contact serious.

I had a set of wooden tongs given to me with a contact printer from an old family friend who could have been mistaken for Ansel Adams and loved to play family Santa. (His life was dedicated to being a rockhound). I love the way developer leaves a soft brown glow, and the fix a sharp white accent. Over the years, they vanished but I made a set for myself and they have the same familiar character.

I occasionally use them for nostalgia's sake. When I use tongs, I am careful not to immerse my fingers in the trays. That prevents cross-contamination. I also don't recall having a big problem with my hands getting chemicals on them.

But these days I am a vinyl glove and towel user. My gloved hands can be in the solutions, I rinse them off and towel dry until every drop is gone between the folds before touching any dry paper. The towel rack was a valued add-on to my sink, and the towels are replaced a couple times a session "just to be on the safe side".

Worst case, a hole gets in the glove and your hand is wet inside, seeping fix through the hole onto the dry paper in the enlarger. I am more paranoid about this than safety to my hands. I immediately discard/replace that glove and wash my hands.

I believe this will keep me from becoming sensitized to Metol, because my hands aren't soaking in the stuff. Just an occasional splash that gets washed off.

One of the issues that MSDS cause is that people unfamiliar with the process will look at the wrong things. When I was looking for someone to take away my used chemicals (I have a septic tank and a well), they wanted the MSDS. When I spoke with them, they were only concerned with the citric acid in the stop bath - the silver that would be in the fixer (and the only "real" problem, imo) wasn't an issue to them at all because they didn't understand the process. Never mind that the percentage of acid in the stop is probably less than that of orange juice by the time I'm done using it. And they charge me the same for the developer/stop barrel as they do for the fix one.

AgX said:

Those safety data sheets are made up in a uniform way and will not take into account the usage of that chemical.
The manufacturer editing a label has to find a way to warn of practical threats and still not overlook the general threat an igredient may yield.

I know at Apug are several members who developed an allergy so that they had to stop some processes or even darkroom work at all. So take those warnings of skin contact serious.

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This makes it easy for anyone to read and understand them. When you use chemicals for more than casual around the house stuff, you should always look at the MSDS. I would hope that this is part of any plan to decide your risk. Unfortunately, some data is incomplete, for instance in the sense of numbers of instances, broad generalizations are used. That is why I would suggest looking further and evaluating your risk. This is especially important for folks with existing conditions that may be exacerbated by exposure to chemicals or component dusts.

I personally don't generate enough time and contact to justify wearing gloves. Especially given the fact that I rinse immediately after removing a sheet of film or paper. For others, this may not be true.

I do, however, agree that anything that has been proven to cause sensitivity or allergy, should be treated with caution.

winger said:

One of the issues that MSDS ... the silver that would be in the fixer (and the only "real" problem, imo) wasn't an issue to them...

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Holy cow, what a loophole. Of course. Fresh fixer doesn't contain ANY silver. So it wouldn't be on the MSDS! I guess the proper thing to do would be to get an MSDS for Silver. Provide it with the original MSDS.

Gerald C Koch said:

Have you considered using a barrier cream? Not as effect as gloves but better than nothing. In my experience most pharmacies have them or can order one.

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I might consider that.

Jeff

JBrunner said:

I have no desire to be forced out of the darkroom forever. If you don't wear gloves, their is a fair chance this will happen. Sensitization is a very real hazard. i t wont kill you, but it will end your darkroom career, so the real men can swagger all they want, and ill be the guy still printing.

I always wear nitrile gloves. Once you are used to them, there isn't a problem. You can rinse or wash your hands just as you would without them.

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I always wear nitrile gloves when printing for this reason. There is a side benefit too: I often use paper negatives and if you are wearing clean dry nitrile gloves there is no chance for fingerprints around the edges.

I'm not recommending this, but I've stopped wearing gloves for developing film in my daylight tanks.. they don't leak and I never spill anything and it's in the sink if I ever did. It just got so that I couldn't see a reason to wear them.

I'm a chemist by training and never, ever would work with any chemical of any kind without gloves on. There is no safe level of exposure, only less hazardous. Good chemical hygiene is the secret to working with chemicals safely for a long time. That includes good ventilation.

Hospital ER rooms have very thin and tactile nitrite "second skin" gloves for examinations, often in blue, black, latex-colour...even green, if you're fussy about colours. You can also buy large packs of 100-200 or more from medical supply stores.

A lot of darkroom chemicals can be quite nasty and aggravating to people with skin cancers on hands or dermatological problems. Erring on the side of safety and caution is better than a cavalier approach.

I keep nitrile gloves around but I never use them. I also never put my hands in any chemistry, ever. If I am mixing anything like Pyro or PPD it is done outside when I am dealing with the powders. I prefer to mix any powders outside.

My Jobo tanks leak occasionally, usually with the fix but rarely with the developer. I have a habit of only picking up the tank with a paper towel in my hand. This minimizes contact in case of a leak, although gloves would be better. The paper towel absorbs the majority of what might have gotten on my skin.

When I was younger and less careful I would occasionally get Pyro on my hands, just a little mind you; a couple drops. Almost immediately I would have a taste in my mouth like burned rubber. Not pleasant and it goes to show how easily the chemical is absorbed into the skin. It is no wonder Weston had health problems and died relatively young. If only he was careful! Imagine what he could have done later in his life if only he lived another 20 years.

Poisson Du Jour said:

Erring on the side of safety and caution is better than a cavalier approach.

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Absolutely. The damage most chemicals cause takes time to show up so you might feel well getting exposed to these chemicals but that does not mitigate the damage being done. Once you get used to wearing gloves, they become second nature.

The #1 reason for wearing gloves is to keep fingerprints off your prints....and uh, health and safety too...

Selenium

I use tongs for most of my printing and rinse my hands frequently. Then, when doing the final wash and selenium toning I put on my nitrile gloves. The MSDS says that selenium is absorbed through the skin in sufficient quanitities to be toxic. Why take a chance? The gloves are inexpensive and as noted by several others don't effect the ability to handle the paper even when wet and slippery.

NedL said:

I always wear nitrile gloves when printing for this reason. There is a side benefit too: I often use paper negatives and if you are wearing clean dry nitrile gloves there is no chance for fingerprints around the edges.

I'm not recommending this, but I've stopped wearing gloves for developing film in my daylight tanks.. they don't leak and I never spill anything and it's in the sink if I ever did. It just got so that I couldn't see a reason to wear them.

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I wanted to come back and add a correction/update to this post. Not too long after this, I began wearing nitrile gloves whenever I develop film too. Working with silver nitrate and gallic acid has made me a bit more cautious, and I'm careful to wear goggles when appropriate and a good dust mask when dealing with powders.

But let me explain: a couple of spills in the darkroom, nothing serious not dangerous, have made me realize that mistakes can happen, and unexpected things can happen too. So I've decided to try to adopt good safe lab practice as a matter of course in order to develop good habits. So... now I wear the nitrile gloves when I handle chemistry, regardless of if I think it is necessary in any particular instance. With powders, I put on the dust mask even if the particular powder is not too dangerous. With acids and silver nitrate, I put on goggles. The point is that now I do these things without thinking or deciding case-by-case if they are a good idea. It's really no trouble at all and in the long run who knows I might be glad to have good habits.

Nitrile gloves are great and they are not expensive. I use them with strong chemical like pyro and TF4.

It's not just a safety issue. Fixer tends to stick to skin a lot more aggressively than to nitrile - and anything you carelessly touch might get fixer
contamination. Washing your hands over and over and over get a bit annoying. Tongs would seem to be useless on large prints - just a good
way to scratch or put kink marks and creases in the paper.

Nitrile gloves and an apron are located on a rack at the entrance/exit of my darkroom. The first thing I do is put them on and the last thing I do (after rinsing them, naturally) is hang them up. I'm a bit OCD with that ritual. Safe to say it's the only thing I get right when it comes to my darkroom technique

Having been through EMT training, nitrile gloves are second nature and they don't impede working in the dark in any way.

+1 for nitrile gloves. The talcum powder inside the latex gloves can reek havoc with your prints or film.

I dont use metol developers...

Mixing chemicals thin latex large loose fit I mix nealing/leaning over bath edge so a spill is wash down

Wet film developer thick latex but remove for plain hypo and clear/surfant

wet printing

bare skin dry area
thin latex wet area & tongs to minimise contamination

but I get exama and ashama air quality horrible here