Glassless Carrier for Durst M601

athbr · Mar 22, 2020

As I have unfortunately come to learn, finding parts for durst enlargers is a drag.

Right now I'm trying to figure out what is the compatible glassless carriers (35 and 66) for my durst M601.

According to the manual the part I'm looking for is called sixma. I have located these parts on ebay but they seem very thin compared to the carrier gate on the enlarger.

My assumption is those are frames to be placed in a larger carrier but can't seem to figure out what that is.

I currently have the sivioneg glass carrier that came with the enlarger. If I removed the glass elements would the sixma frames fit on it? Or do I need a different carrier? In which case what am I looking for?

Thanks

Dali · Mar 22, 2020

I have a M605 for the last 35 years, so if the carrier is the same as the M601, I can answer you.

No, you don't need to change of carrier. For 24x36, you need the kit named SIVOPAR 35. For 6x6, you need SIVOPAR 66.

Each kit is made of 2 parts named SIXMA (for the lower part of the negative carrier) and SIVOMA (for the upper part) to be inserted in the carrier instead of the 2 glass plates you have. They have the exact same dimension.

darkroommike · Mar 22, 2020

Here then is a thing, the M600, M601, M605, and a few others use a carrier with inserts for different formats. A SIXMA + another SIXMA creates an upper and lower pair called a (wait for it) SIVOPAR. That's how the SIVOPAR 66 and 645 work, you can also use a single SIXMA in the bottom spot in the carrier with a SIVOGLA (GLA glass, get it?) or a SIVOGLA AN (anti Newton Ring). A SIVOMA is slightly more cut out than a SIXMA and is usually used in the top spot. If you can find two SIVOMA they will function as a full frame insert set for the carrier and you can print the rebate around the frame. Or do the same thing with the SIVOMA in the bottom and a SIVOGLA in the top. Some inserts were never sold in pairs and were intended for use in the bottom of the carrier only. THINGIVERSE has an .stl file for 3d printing of inserts, if you can code you can make the insert aperture and size you want.

ic-racer · Mar 22, 2020

I currently have the sivioneg glass carrier

You already have the best setup. What more do you want?

athbr · Mar 22, 2020

ic-racer said:
You already have the best setup. What more do you want?

TBH I'd rather collect these parts while I still have a chance.

But while you're here, do you use the regular or AN glass carrier? I have heard mixed reviews of the AN glass.

athbr · Mar 22, 2020

darkroommike said:
Here then is a thing, the M600, M601, M605, and a few others use a carrier with inserts for different formats. A SIXMA + another SIXMA creates an upper and lower pair called a (wait for it) SIVOPAR. That's how the SIVOPAR 66 and 645 work, you can also use a single SIXMA in the bottom spot in the carrier with a SIVOGLA (GLA glass, get it?) or a SIVOGLA AN (anti Newton Ring). A SIVOMA is slightly more cut out than a SIXMA and is usually used in the top spot. If you can find two SIVOMA they will function as a full frame insert set for the carrier and you can print the rebate around the frame. Or do the same thing with the SIVOMA in the bottom and a SIVOGLA in the top. Some inserts were never sold in pairs and were intended for use in the bottom of the carrier only. THINGIVERSE has an .stl file for 3d printing of inserts, if you can code you can make the insert aperture and size you want.

I will never cease to be amazed at how many bits and bobs there are for these enlargers.

Cheers Mike this settles my question!

athbr · Mar 22, 2020

darkroommike said:
Here then is a thing, the M600, M601, M605, and a few others use a carrier with inserts for different formats. A SIXMA + another SIXMA creates an upper and lower pair called a (wait for it) SIVOPAR. That's how the SIVOPAR 66 and 645 work, you can also use a single SIXMA in the bottom spot in the carrier with a SIVOGLA (GLA glass, get it?) or a SIVOGLA AN (anti Newton Ring). A SIVOMA is slightly more cut out than a SIXMA and is usually used in the top spot. If you can find two SIVOMA they will function as a full frame insert set for the carrier and you can print the rebate around the frame. Or do the same thing with the SIVOMA in the bottom and a SIVOGLA in the top. Some inserts were never sold in pairs and were intended for use in the bottom of the carrier only. THINGIVERSE has an .stl file for 3d printing of inserts, if you can code you can make the insert aperture and size you want.

BTW any links to good thingiverse models in case you've printed a few of these successfully?

gorbas · Mar 23, 2020

I made my own metal inserts for M605 and M800. It's not that hard and it's fun project. Especialy If you prefer full frame negative printing and you can cuctomize it to your cameras. Always AN glass on the top of it. No issues

koraks · Mar 23, 2020

ic-racer said:
You already have the best setup. What more do you want?

Maybe because he'd like to prevent the additional 2-4 surfaces that inevitably collect dust. While glass carriers are certainly optimal in terms of sharpness, I thoroughly dislike the damn things and am currently using only glassless for 35mm up to 4x5 in my M605 and 138.

jtk · Mar 23, 2020

Wipe your enlarger and location with a damp towel before each session.

koraks · Mar 23, 2020

Yeah, and in a minute, 138s will come along and suggest I install a HEPA filter system.

Or...I could just use glassless carriers with no observable sharpness penalty, saving me the trouble of rearranging my darkroom in such a way that it is in fact wipable.

Ian Grant · Mar 23, 2020

gorbas said:
I made my own metal inserts for M605 and M800. It's not that hard and it's fun project. Especialy If you prefer full frame negative printing and you can cuctomize it to your cameras. Always AN glass on the top of it. No issues

I made my own metal35mm inserts for my M601 back in 1975 and tehy are still good today, as a student I couldn't afford Durst's prices it was money better spent on film and paper, the enlarger was a 21st present from my Grandmother.

It was seay as you say.

Ian

jtk · Mar 23, 2020

koraks said:
Yeah, and in a minute, 138s will come along and suggest I install a HEPA filter system.

Or...I could just use glassless carriers with no observable sharpness penalty, saving me the trouble of rearranging my darkroom in such a way that it is in fact wipable.

If your concern is "trouble" you might be happier avoiding film. I used a Durst 609 for decades.. glass didn't help with 35mm but was very important to 6X6 and 6X7 for film flatness. But I did wipe darkroom surfaces at beginning of each printing session.

koraks · Mar 24, 2020

jtk said:
If your concern is "trouble" you might be happier avoiding film.

That's of course true. But I genuinely enjoy darkroom printing
As to 120 film flatness - I constructed a simple film holder for my 138 that clamps the film on the long edges with sheet metal strips and magnets. Flatness is sufficient for sharp prints. It's a compromise for sure, but a compromise with no visible penalty. It helps that I generally print fairly small; usually up to 8x10 or maybe a tad bigger, 10x12 or so.
If course, nothing beats the perfect flatness of glass holders, but they're just not for me.
Btw, the glassles durst holder and masks for 6x6 in my m605 do a very good job as well.

Renato Tonelli · Mar 24, 2020

I have the M601 and have been using it with the glass and AN glass. It’s a bit of a pain to keep four surfaces clean but well-worth it - the negative is absolutely flat and this is especially useful when printing that 37th frame.

However, you could make your own inserts with thin, rigid black cardboard (I have done it for a 4x5 carrier and it works). The M601 Negative carrier is made so that the glass pieces or inserts can be removed.

And finally: YES, those inserts you saw on ebay will fit in your negative carrier. PM me if you need detailed instructions.

darkroommike · Mar 24, 2020

gorbas said:
I made my own metal inserts for M605 and M800. It's not that hard and it's fun project. Especialy If you prefer full frame negative printing and you can cuctomize it to your cameras. Always AN glass on the top of it. No issues

I've done the same using cheap metal carriers, cut out the plates then file to fit like the original Durst inserts.

darkroommike · Mar 24, 2020

If enlarger lenses were truly flat field using glass inserts would be more important. Glass was useful when printing papers were much slower, since negatives could "pop" halfway through an exposure.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3676786

Glassless Carrier for Durst M601

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