Giving up on old folders

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 18, 2023

After much frustration with my perfect looking, cla'd twice Mamiya six folder with unreliable focusing I am looking to upgrade to a 'newer ' camera that is pocket able.
I have a Mamiya 645 that produces good images but it can be little to much to haul around .
Unless some more enlightened Mamiya six folder user can come up with an obvious solution I am considering one of the later 645 Fuji's but reliability and fragility seem to be issues.

Any opinions on the various Fuji's ?

Steven Lee · Feb 19, 2023

If focus accuracy is important, avoid the GF670. Haven't tried the others, although the Makina looks so fucking tempting...

Alan9940 · Feb 19, 2023

There are many other good folders out there, if that's the style of camera that fits your needs. All of the Fuji 645s are good IMO, but I wouldn't classify them as pocketable. I have a GA645Zi that's served me well for many years with none of the issues you'll see around the web. The lens is quite sharp and it's easily carried wherever you may trek.

xya · Feb 19, 2023

Yes, there are many other good folders around, I had quite some of them https://www.120folder.com/index.htm One of the sharpest and most reliable for me was the Super Ikonta III. I still use an Iskra and an Iskra 2, very sharp as well. If you consider 4.5x6, have a look at the Pearl III, it's incredible how small and light it is.

I have the wide version of the GA645. Tack sharp, reliable and the easiest camera I have, point and shoot in mid format. Absolutely fantastic. But not small. So is the Makina 67. Heavy as a brick, but perhaps the sharpest folder I ever had.

Paul Howell · Feb 19, 2023

what about a Fuji 6, I've been looking at them for a while.

4season · Feb 19, 2023

I thought the 1980s Fuji GS645 folder was a likeable thing with great features, but I had issues with jamming and rangefinder accuracy, even after Fuji USA service. But when it worked, it really was something.

Fuji GA645, GA645zi autofocus cameras: Similar flat package as a folder when lens is retracted, thought these were great. But this was in the early aughties when they were still new, and not all cameras age well.

GregY · Feb 19, 2023

On the subject of relatively modern, I loved the Mamiya 6 (mf). Slim when collapsed, big 6x6 negative....great lenses...handled like a charm compared with the Plaubel Makina....

etn · Feb 19, 2023

Steven Lee said:
the Makina looks so fucking tempting...

It is indeed. The first 2 test rolls done in my newly-acquired Makina 67 came back from the lab and focusing is spot on - this includes images taken at f/2.8.

...but I realize that my next challenge is to hold the camera horizontal, an issue I never had with the viewfinder grid of my Hasselblad or Rolleiflex!

Only negative of the Makina is the hard-to-see rangefinder patch. Apart from that, it is a great camera! Go for it!

Two23 · Feb 19, 2023

I've been using a Zeiss Super Ikonta IV 6x6 and like it, but I think the III might be better since it doesn't use the EV system. EV is a nuisance. I also have good luck with the 35mm Retina IIa. It does fit in a pocket and is easy to use.

Kent in SD

takilmaboxer · Feb 19, 2023

My Fuji GS645 repeatedly died and was expensive to fix. I gave up and now use it as a light meter. Fragile as hell.
But my old Ikonta folders are going strong. The 645 versions are very pocketable. The best ratio of negative size to camera size that money can buy.

retina_restoration · Feb 19, 2023

Voigtlander Perkeo.
Kodak Retina IIa or IIIc
Kodak Special Six-20 with the Anastigmat Special lens

Alan9940 · Feb 19, 2023

Two23 said:
I've been using a Zeiss Super Ikonta IV 6x6 and like it, but I think the III might be better since it doesn't use the EV system. EV is a nuisance. I also have good luck with the 35mm Retina IIa. It does fit in a pocket and is easy to use.

Kent in SD

I have both the Zeiss Super Ikonta III and a Retina IIa...wonderful cameras that don't disappoint!

Nicholas Lindan · Feb 19, 2023

There are also the Zeiss Nettars.

The lens is a triplet but is surprisingly good. Lenses often come in two apertures - f6.8 or f3.5, for instance.

There are various shutters, look for one with a Prontor or Compur.. The other shutters - Pronto, Vario, Telma... - are 3 or four speed units and best avoided; on the other hand they are very reliable.

They come in 645, 66 & 69 sizes. The 645s are tiny - about the size of a P&S.

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 19, 2023

Paul Howell said:
what about a Fuji 6, I've been looking at them for a while.

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Melvin J Bramley · Feb 19, 2023

I have considered the Fuji 6 as it was one of the last folders produced; but as enamoured by the cameras of that era I am becoming weary and wary of their temperamental nature and the difficulty of focusing with my tired old eyes !

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 19, 2023

takilmaboxer said:
My Fuji GS645 repeatedly died and was expensive to fix. I gave up and now use it as a light meter. Fragile as hell.
But my old Ikonta folders are going strong. The 645 versions are very pocketable. The best ratio of negative size to camera size that money can buy.

Yours is the first negative comment I have heard on the Fuji GS645.
I realised they have bellows issues, but what else?

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 19, 2023

4season said:
I thought the 1980s Fuji GS645 folder was a likeable thing with great features, but I had issues with jamming and rangefinder accuracy, even after Fuji USA service. But when it worked, it really was something.

Fuji GA645, GA645zi autofocus cameras: Similar flat package as a folder when lens is retracted, thought these were great. But this was in the early aughties when they were still new, and not all cameras age well.

Just how reliable was the Fuji GA645zi ?
Would low count model offer any chance of long term use ?

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 19, 2023

GregY said:
On the subject of relatively modern, I loved the Mamiya 6 (mf). Slim when collapsed, big 6x6 negative....great lenses...handled like a charm compared with the Plaubel Makina....

The Mamiya 6 is for me a dream camera , the cost of which is beyond my pension!
That said it could be beyond pocketabity?
As an older 'plastic' camera just how reliable is the camera?

GregY · Feb 19, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
The Mamiya 6 is for me a dream camera , the cost of which is beyond my pension!
That said it could be beyond pocketabity?
As an older 'plastic' camera just how reliable is the camera?

It was incredibly reliable for me MB.... but sold mine & the 3 lenses since we're at the whim of electronic death. If it were a mechanical camera i would still have it. I dragged it all over the mountains climbing & skiing....

xya · Feb 20, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
Yours is the first negative comment I have heard on the Fuji GS645.
I realised they have bellows issues, but what else?

Melvin J Bramley said:
Just how reliable was the Fuji GA645zi ?
Would low count model offer any chance of long term use ?

Yes, the bellows of the GS are a problem, but there are other issues indeed https://www.120folder.com/fuji_gs645.htm As you must not close the camera without the shutter cocked and the lens set to infinity, it might jam. I made a little page about that https://www.120folder.com/fuji_gs645_shutter.htm Mine had aperture issues as well. Nevertheless I loved it when it worked.

The GA645Zi can have a cable problem, the LCD on the back is connected via a flat cable that can break. Without LCD it's more or less useless https://www.120folder.com/fuji_ga645zi.htm There is a repair now as far as I know. Mine worked for years, I tried to avoid cable stress.

Helge · Feb 20, 2023

Don’t go with Japanese folders. While they are good when they work, Japanese manufacturing and design was not quite up to speed with 60s and forward quality when these cameras were made. There is a reason for the joke in Back to the Future III.

1955 Doc Brown
(Inspects the failed circuit) "Unbelievable that this little piece of junk could be such a big problem."
(Turns it over) "No wonder this circuit failed, it says made in Japan."

Marty
"What do you mean doc, all the best stuff is made in Japan."

Doc Brown
"Unbelievable."

Go with German and to a lesser extent English folders with leather bellows.

Donald Qualls · Feb 20, 2023

If you like 6x4.5 you could do a great deal worse than a Konica Pearl III. Like any folder, you should get a CLA when you get it, but it has an excellent lens and shutter, frame counter, coupled rangefinder, and is actually a bit smaller than a 6x4.5 Zeiss folder (with RF).

guangong · Feb 20, 2023

Except for meter being way off (I find diodes annoying anyway), my Fuji gs645, loaded with film and ready to go after closing a sieve of pinhole leaks with Tulip fabric ink. I have no complaints with my Fuji gf670, or my Makina 67. None of these are pocketable, but hang close to body when folded. My most robust folder is probably my Super Ikonta B, bought around 1970. Very robust. Zeiss had the most reliable lens erecting system.
If you desire a pocketable camera, look to 35mm cameras such as Retina and Contessa.

Helge · Feb 20, 2023

Donald Qualls said:
If you like 6x4.5 you could do a great deal worse than a Konica Pearl III. Like any folder, you should get a CLA when you get it, but it has an excellent lens and shutter, frame counter, coupled rangefinder, and is actually a bit smaller than a 6x4.5 Zeiss folder (with RF).

Just be aware that the unit focusing means that the lens needs to be fully retracted for folding. Something owners didn’t always know or remember.
Did your folder undergo any forceful closing attempts?
You’ll never really know.
Except the tiny bit non symmetrical softness and that hard to spot non alignment between standard and body might be the result of it?

Besk · Feb 20, 2023

I have a Agfa Record III in good condition which has been serviced and tested. Great for modest enlargements. No way would it be my only camera if traveling.

Giving up on old folders

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