Gevachrome and orwochrome and E6

Ian Grant · Jul 23, 2008

Yes the British Journal of Photography Annual published the formulae for many years only stopping 4 0r 5 years ago, the Annula was originally called The British Journal Photographic Almanac. Probably cheaper on Amazon second hand.

Old copies are excellent resources for processing & equipment information.

Ian

narigas2006 · Jul 23, 2008

but with the pH...

Sorry to ask it again... but what could I use to lower the pH of the color dev, I have available NaOH, KOH and CsOH. ALso, could I try to process old ektachrome using a similar process as the gevachrome? Many many thanks!!!

richardson

Photo Engineer · Jul 23, 2008

You lower the pH by adding acid. I suggest sulfuric acid, 5% or thereabouts. You raise the pH with NaOH and etc.

PE

narigas2006 · Jul 24, 2008

Photo Engineer said:
You lower the pH by adding acid. I suggest sulfuric acid, 5% or thereabouts. You raise the pH with NaOH and etc.

PE

Sorry... I mis-wrote, I meant raise the pH... too many experiments going on @ the moment...

Photo Engineer · Jul 24, 2008

Then use 50 grams / liter of Sodium Carbonate and adjust pH from 9.5 - 10.5 as needed with 10% sodium hydroxide or 50 grams / liter of Tri Sodium Phosphate and adjust pH from 10.5 - 11.5 with 10% sodium hydroxide. That gives you 2 nice ranges to work in.

PE

narigas2006 · Aug 1, 2008

Dear all,

thanks immensely, I have to emphasise, IMMENSELY for the help/ I got very nice results but I will post my second batch as I produced a pitiful solarisation film.

But>

4g CD3+ 70g Na carbonate worked as a beauty (pH 11 with NaOH 10%)

Again, you'll be on my acknowledgements when my film gets ready!

PHOTOTONE · Aug 2, 2008

Are you actually expecting to get "good" results from film that is probably decades out-of-date?

narigas2006 · Aug 4, 2008

PHOTOTONE said:
Are you actually expecting to get "good" results from film that is probably decades out-of-date?

'good' is such a subjective concept... In my point of view, YES, in your point of view, i dunno. I've got fantastic results with an animation sequence I shot using this film. THen I tried svema color 16mm, and again, awesome results, a kind of look I thought it had disappeared, like 'Moscow does not believe in tears'. Also, due to its nature, the project I am working will greatly benefit from gevachrome/svema chrome film.

billtroop · Jun 25, 2019

I don't think these sources are bulletproof. I once sent Focal Press a copy of Jacobson's Developing, 18th edition. I documented over 200 errors. My idea was that they would let me technical-edit a new edition. Instead, they asked me to write my own book, which I did. Similarly, the BJ Annuals are well known for inconsistency and inaccuracy. I worked very hard with Mr Crawley to get the definitive formulas for the FX series, as we sifted out competing formulas from various BJ annuals. My present reading of the situation, subject to correction, is that CD-1 is the sulfite salt, and is no longer available. Genochrome is the sulfate salt, which is available, and is used to this day.

Ian Grant said:
The difference is I took the information from two reputable printed sources, not the internet.

From the British Journal Photographic Almanac 1961, page 134 - Colour Developing agents:

Genochrome /Activol - p-amino diethylanilineSO2 - Sulphite
Activol H - p-amino diethylaniline HCl - Hydrochloride
Activol S - p-amino diethylaniline sulphate - obviously Sulphate

The prices were all approx 5 shillings for 25grams, and the suppliers are listed.

In the 18th Edition of Developing, Focal Press, 1972, Jacobson lists 5 common Colour Developing agents, each with 4 of the possible ways of naming the compounds. This is the source for Genochrome in the previous post.

In full Genochrome is:

Diethyl-p-phenylenediamine sulphite
N.N-Diethy-p-phenylenediamine sulphite
p-Diethylaminoaniline sulphite
4-Amino-N,N-diethylaniline sulphite
p-amino diethylanilineSO2
(C2H5)2N-C6H4-NH2.SO2

You will see that Johnsons made all three salts.

Activol (No 1) - sulphite
Activol H (No 6) -hydrochloride
Activol S (No 7) - sulphate

So Genochrome is not CD-1.

Ian

Ian Grant · Jun 25, 2019

Dragging up 11 year old threads. Those are reliable sources and Kurt Jacobson was a highly regarded internationally known photochemist.

Ian

Ian Grant · Jun 25, 2019

hectorpaljr said:
Thanks for correction re: phenidone. My memory is clearly failing! (Its 35years since doing the processing). Interested in your comments re Munns, Ian, - I only used them once via my local chemists and for ektachrome processing. The fact I only used them once says it all really - that memory of 40 years is still quite vivid even if the slides were not.

If I compared Jacobson's book Developing to the Photo Lab Index and almost all US books with Formulae until the DCB 3rd Edition I too could find a huge number of errors. Jacobson's 18th Edition has very few if any mistakes. The Photo Lab Index is so full of errors it's useless, ask Buster if you don't believe me

Ian

georgegrosu · Jun 28, 2019

I found something information about the color reversal process for Agfa Gevaert's films in the book of Constantin Pivniceru and Monica Mioc -
Photo lab recipe for film (Solutions for photosensitive materials in colors) since 1974.
Probably these names for you will not say much.
In Romania, these names are the reference, and the Photo lab recipe for black-white is highly appreciated among students from the faculty of theater and film.
https://www.librarie.net/p/168635/r...utii-pentru-materiale-fotosensibile-alb-negru
Here are recipes for processing color negatives, color positives, and color reversal Agfa Gevaert films.
It is mentioned here that:
Ethyl-oxy-ethyl-para-phenylenediamine sulphate can be replaced with diethyl-para-phenylenediamine sulphate (or hydrochloride) in the amount of 4.5 g per liter.
That can be used as the agent for the color developer - CD1 (TSS).

George

georgegrosu · Jun 29, 2019

The process for Agfa Gevaert reversal color is given in “Agfa Gevaert reversible color Table”
and the formulas are presented in “Agfa Gevaert reversible color Formula”.

George

georgegrosu · Jun 30, 2019

Composition for bleaching, fixer and stabilization you can found in Agfa Gevaert reversibil color Formulae 2.

George

mohmad khatab · Jul 9, 2020

narigas2006 said:
'good' is such a subjective concept... In my point of view, YES, in your point of view, i dunno. I've got fantastic results with an animation sequence I shot using this film. THen I tried svema color 16mm, and again, awesome results, a kind of look I thought it had disappeared, like 'Moscow does not believe in tears'. Also, due to its nature, the project I am working will greatly benefit from gevachrome/svema chrome film.

I read these words and felt a lot of affection and longing for the beautiful past,
Misku does not believe in tears, which has a great place in our hearts.

mohmad khatab · Jul 9, 2020

georgegrosu said:
I found something information about the color reversal process for Agfa Gevaert's films in the book of Constantin Pivniceru and Monica Mioc -
Photo lab recipe for film (Solutions for photosensitive materials in colors) since 1974.
Probably these names for you will not say much.
In Romania, these names are the reference, and the Photo lab recipe for black-white is highly appreciated among students from the faculty of theater and film.
https://www.librarie.net/p/168635/r...utii-pentru-materiale-fotosensibile-alb-negru
Here are recipes for processing color negatives, color positives, and color reversal Agfa Gevaert films.
It is mentioned here that:
Ethyl-oxy-ethyl-para-phenylenediamine sulphate can be replaced with diethyl-para-phenylenediamine sulphate (or hydrochloride) in the amount of 4.5 g per liter.
That can be used as the agent for the color developer - CD1 (TSS).

George

Romanian colleague
- I do not own (CD1) while I own (CD2) & (CD3) & (CD4) ,,,, whichever works as an alternative in your opinion.
- Does this book have the formula (AP44) & (AP70)
God bless you ,,
Greetings to the friendly Roman people.

Gevachrome and orwochrome and E6

Ian Grant

narigas2006

Photo Engineer

narigas2006

Photo Engineer

narigas2006

PHOTOTONE

narigas2006

billtroop

Ian Grant

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