Getting the best out of my scanner

SusanV · May 2, 2007

Hi everyone,

I have an Epson 3200 scanner, and I'm scanning 120 and 4x5 film with it.
I know there are better scanners, but this is what I've got, and I want to
learn to get the best scans I can with it. I know that there are variable
height film holders in order to get the film at the exact height of the scanner's
focus... what doesn't make sense to me about that is that the scanner will
also scan printed material that lays flat on the glass. Does the scanner
change it's focus point for that setting or what?

And one more question: Does each Epson 3200 scanner possibly have a
different focus point? It seems to me that the focus point for that model
should be a given that I could find on the net somewhere, instead of doing a
lot of testing (Understand I'm not lazy about doing necessary tests,
I'd just rather be making art )

Thanks for any guidance you can offer,
Susan

Doug Fisher · May 2, 2007

Hi Susan -

Sub-$1000 flatbed scanners very rarely have lens systems that focus (the new Microtek M1 claims it may change this). Instead they have a fixed focus lens with a relatively wide depth of field. That is how they can have relatively sharp text scans from the glass and film scans from about 1 mm off the glass. Unfortunately, these relatively inexpensive optics can and do have quite a bit of variance from unit to unit. That is why people who test their scanner often find they can improve the sharpness of their image with a little shimming. You can experiment with cut business cards, report covers or buy shim material from places like www.mcmaster.com. Here are some links that demonstrate this issue:

http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/Epson_flatbeds.html#Focus_spacing

http://www.larry-bolch.com/ephemeral/4870-shims.htm

Doug
---
www.BetterScanning.com

amphoto · May 3, 2007

software

Hey Susan. This might be a little bit off line with regard to your initial question, but if you really want to get the best out of your scanner (in addition to nailing the focus point), have a look at 3rd party scanning software. In particular vuescan (www.hamrick.com). The later versions of this allow you to scan in RAW format and output as an Adobe .dng (open-source RAW) file. This lets you get every last bit of info from the scan and then do post-processing in Photoshop or Lightroom etc. I've seen the Epson driver clip shadow/highlight information (even when I've switched all scanner-side adjustments off), but with Vuescan (in RAW format output) it's there. Of additional interest is the feature in Photoshop CS3 Extended that lets you simultaneously filter across individual copies of the same image, spread over a number of layers and then converted to a single smart object (see this movie: http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/CS3StackModeSM.mov). This could potentially be used to remove any scanner induced noise very effectively.

MAGNAchrom · May 3, 2007

keep in mind that if these are negatives, then controlling the contrast of the negative itself will improve the scan tremendously when it comes to getting decent 16-bit scans out of a flatbed. So to the extent that you can control it via processing/exposure, just make sure that the final neg doesn't have any "super dark" areas and you will find that your flatbed scans improve.

Same thing applies to chromes -- flat chromes scan better on a flatbed than contrasty chromes.

Ted Harris · May 3, 2007

Susan, some shameless self promotion. You might be interested in one of our scanning workshops. The Albuquerque workshop the end of this month is now full. We have another coming up at Midwest Photo in Columbus Ohio the weekend of August 17th and one in NH sometime this Fall. You can PM opr email me for more info and also click on the link on Midwest's home page (www.mpex.com).

SusanV · May 5, 2007

Lots of good information, thanks to each of you!

Doug... thanks for explaining that for me, and for the links. I'm going to do
some testing of mine now that I understand the issue better.

Amphoto... Yes! My scanner clips even when I have it set so that it shouldn't
do it (using the Epson software). I thought it was me...now I know it's
Epson. I'll check out those other software options.

Hi Michael... yep, I just figured that out recently and have started making
adjustments to my lighting, exposures, development... as if photogravures
don't already have enough variables, grrrrr.....

Ted... no problem, thanks for the heads-up. The one in NH would be close
and I'll definitely check into that. Thanks a lot.

Susan

mkochsch · May 5, 2007

Finding the sweetspot

I have the 3200 also. It's a workhorse. Someday I'll replace it with newer Epson...but until then.
I've never been bothered by the output (read: I do a lot of judicious sharpening) BUT I've read techniques where people have placed rulers and other objects vertical on the glass and then scanned to see the range of depth of field. I've also read where someone cut strips of thin material (bond paper perhaps) and placed them stacked just slight offset on the flatbed to see which layer was the sharpest and then used that as the new level to shim to. On many scanners it does seem that the point is closer to the glass and not farther away.
I've not scanned 4x5 but I have scanned 6x7cm format and have never had a big problem with flatness, but some negs can be "difficult".
How much are you enlarging the result may be a factor on how much time you want to fiddle with the input. I use both Vuescan and Epson's scan for scanning sometimes Epson works just as well but Vuescan can vary the stepper motor causing more or less light to go through the negative which sometimes gives you an advantage. If you use the RAW option in Vuescan then you have to apply a gamma curve before the output is usable (yet another step in the workflow).
~m

SusanV · May 6, 2007

mkochsch said:
I've also read where someone cut strips of thin material (bond paper perhaps) and placed them stacked just slight offset on the flatbed to see which layer was the sharpest and then used that as the new level to shim to. On many scanners it does seem that the point is closer to the glass and not farther away.
~m

This seems like a great idea, and very simple. I like that!

you also said "If you use the RAW option in Vuescan then you have to apply a gamma curve before the output is usable (yet another step in the workflow)."

ahhh... more curves. Well if it gives me a better final image... I think I'm going to try Vuescan because I just haven't been happy with Epson (software)

thanks for the help!
susan

donbga · May 6, 2007

mkochsch said:
but I have scanned 6x7cm format and have never had a big problem with flatness, but some negs can be "difficult".
~m

I highly recommend the film holders sold on www.betterscanning.com.

Don Bryant

frugal · May 7, 2007

SusanV said:
ahhh... more curves. Well if it gives me a better final image... I think I'm going to try Vuescan because I just haven't been happy with Epson (software)

I'd definitely recommend Vuescan, the packaged software with scanners frequently doesn't give you very much control over the process. Vuescan takes a little getting used to but you can usually get a scan where nothing is clipped in the shadows or the highlights.

If you use the raw output you'll usually find everything is really dark, you might not have to apply a curve but will at least need to adjust the shadow and highlight sliders in levels as a start.

SusanV · May 7, 2007

frugal said:
I'd definitely recommend Vuescan, the packaged
software with scanners frequently doesn't give you very much control over
the process. Vuescan takes a little getting used to but you can usually get a
scan where nothing is clipped in the shadows or the highlights.

If you use the raw output you'll usually find everything is really dark, you
might not have to apply a curve but will at least need to adjust the shadow
and highlight sliders in levels as a start.

Thank you. I've been using PDN, so I've gotten a lot more comfotable with
curves than I used to be.

I just went to Hamrick.com to download Vuescan, but got scared off due to
possible problems with my scanner and Vuescan and Vista OS. I'm using XP
right now, but have a new machine ordered with Vista... it won't be here for
a couple more weeks, but maybe I should wait till I get it to try Vuescan.
(New puter is going to be so cool... my old one is really old (2001), and
sloooow... I'll need a seatbelt for the new one )

Anyway... anyone have any experience with Vuescan and Vista?

Susan

frugal · May 8, 2007

SusanV said:
Thank you. I've been using PDN, so I've gotten a lot more comfotable with
curves than I used to be.

I just went to Hamrick.com to download Vuescan, but got scared off due to
possible problems with my scanner and Vuescan and Vista OS. I'm using XP
right now, but have a new machine ordered with Vista... it won't be here for
a couple more weeks, but maybe I should wait till I get it to try Vuescan.
(New puter is going to be so cool... my old one is really old (2001), and
sloooow... I'll need a seatbelt for the new one )

Anyway... anyone have any experience with Vuescan and Vista?

Susan

I see it listed as supported on his site, I'm on a Mac so I can't say for certain. I will tell you that Ed Hamrick is obscenely quick at getting releases out and extremely responsive to user feedback. I sent him a few comments on issues with my scanner and he got back to me extremely quickly and had beta copies for me to test in remarkable time. So if you do have issues with your specific scanner and vista with Vuescan I wouldn't worry too much as Ed will likely be willing to iron out the kinks with you.

SusanV · May 8, 2007

Hi Frugal, thanks for the info. Yes, I've done some more reading about it,
and I'm sure it'll work out to use Vuescan with Vista and my scanner. I do
think I'll wait till I get the new puter before I download it though... hopefully
that won't be too long.

Susan

Getting the best out of my scanner

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