getting started with medium format

craigclu · Nov 15, 2008

My first MF was a Yashica D back in 1976, purchased used for about $30. I was recently looking at some wedding pictures that I took at a relative's wedding back in that era. The hired pro (excellent guy with top-level gear) had a lab incident destroy half of his shots. The old Yashica shots helped to fill in the gaps and actually are hard to discern from his shots and I think that most people would be very pleased with them. Stop down a bit with one of the Yashica models and you'll get a good taste for the format with minimal outlay. I think that the viewing/composing of them actually helped me to become a better photographer. A Rolleiflex is more gratifying from a mechanical precision standpoint and the glass stands up well to modern day stuff, especially in the f8-f11 range. They come a bit more dear for a clean, well-functioning example but hold value quite well, so you're at little financial risk to try some of these things.

Polybun · Nov 15, 2008

phthenry said:
Again, thanks everyone. I have done more research, and that research, as well as pupfish's post, leads me to believe that hand holding a medium format camera is harder than I thought. It seems that the SLRs are hard to hand hold because the big mirror causes too much shake when it flips up. I read that one photographer complained that despite looking like a 35 mm SLR, the pentax could not be hand held, at least by him.

My understanding is that one can more easily hand hold a TLR or rangefinder. The Yashica 124G seems like a nice camera for me to start with. I see one selling on ebay right now for $75, but I'm not ready to commit yet, knowing too little. I think someone mentioned the Mamiya press camera.

I have used a waist level viewfinder before. I once owned an Exacta 35 mm camera, and yes, the image looking backwards really proved a problem at times.

I mentioned the press. Its a leaf shutter and it has a nice big handle. I don't think people dig the Press very much. Its a really ugly camera when you get right down to it. I personally love it.

As far as hand holding an slr, I can man handle a pentax 67 no problem. That said I think i could shoulder fire a 4x5 view camera. So long as its less than 10lbs it isn't giong to offer me much trouble. lol

The problem with the 67 is it does not have removable backs. It also has only a focal plane shutter and its strobe sync speed is 1/30th.

mikebarger · Nov 15, 2008

In this price range it is hard to beat Koni's if your wanting a rangefinder camera and a big negative.

Mike

papagene · Nov 15, 2008

If you want to bust your budget a little and have a very hand-holdable rangefinder, I would suggest a Fuji GW67II. Great lens on it, nice negative size, flash sync up to 1/500 sec and I have hand-held it successfully down to 1/30 sec.
Two drawbacks (which I can easily live with) are no interchangeable lens or backs.
My $0.02 worth of advice.

gene

MattKing · Nov 15, 2008

phthenry said:
Again, thanks everyone. I have done more research, and that research, as well as pupfish's post, leads me to believe that hand holding a medium format camera is harder than I thought. It seems that the SLRs are hard to hand hold because the big mirror causes too much shake when it flips up. I read that one photographer complained that despite looking like a 35 mm SLR, the pentax could not be hand held, at least by him.

I'm speaking from the perspective of a 6x4.5 SLR user, and not a 6x7 SLR user, but it seems to me that the results I get hand-holding my Mamiya SLR gear are quite similar to the results I get with my 35mm (Olympus OM) gear. By that I mean that mirror induced vibration is much less important than photographer induced movement.

There are of course other differences with medium format that flow from having slower lenses, and less available depth of field for the same magnification. In addition, the ergonomics are quite different, so I expect that factor may cause some photographers more problems than others.

My medium format cameras range between Mamiya TLRs that I've used for 30 years or so, through Mamiya 6x4.5 gear that I've used for the last three years, to some recently acquired Koni-Omega equipment that I am still trying to adapt to. It seems to me that some of my skills, strengths, dexterity and tendencies are better suited to some of my equipment (e.g. my TLRs) than they are to other equipment I own (e.g. my Koni-Omegas - I am still uncomfortable with their film winding and focus).

As a result, I think that I am more successful hand-holding the TLRs than the Koni-Omegas.

IMHO medium format equipment is more varied than 35mm. For that reason, it may be that the answer to your question about which equipment you should choose is to try to learn which equipment is best matched to you.

Matt

PhotoJim · Nov 16, 2008

You can certainly hand-hold medium format gear. I have shot a lot of film in my Minolta Autocord handheld and with good success. However, I find that my Bronica SQ-A is fairly difficult to handhold by comparison and so I prefer to use it on a tripod. (Bronica does have a "speed grip" that would probably help with that issue, but as yet I haven't purchased one.)

If you want to do handheld 120, try a TLR like the Autocord. Even if you end up getting an SLR later, you might find that your shooting style with a TLR is different. I find the TLR is great for spontaneous people pictures, and the Bronica is better for more formal shots and landscapes.

Chazzy · Nov 16, 2008

mikebarger said:
In this price range it is hard to beat Koni's if your wanting a rangefinder camera and a big negative.

Mike

I agree totally. Rugged cameras and excellent lenses for very little money. Get a comfortable strap, and some occasional service on the backs when necessary, and you're in business.

Paul Jenkin · Nov 16, 2008

Now is probably the best time to buy MF gear - ever...! I've used it reasonably extensively 20 years ago but have been a 35mm user (film and digital) only for the past couple of decades. I now have a Bronica SQ-B with 40mm, 80mm and 150mm lenses and, though you won't get that for $300, you should get a Mamiya C220 with 80mm lenses - which is a superb piece of kit to start on. The other 'must have' piece of kit is a half-decent light meter. I use a Minolta combined light meter / flash meter which cost me a little over £100 ($200) but you can pick up a Gossen or Weston for much less. Good luck with your hunting / purchase. Paul.

mikebarger · Nov 16, 2008

I keep a Koni 100 behind the seat of my truck for those gee wish I had a camera moments.

I had the back serviced when I got the camera and no troubles over last 2.5 or 3 years.
Have even used it in the surf in NC with no ill effect.

Mike

k_jupiter · Nov 16, 2008

mikebarger said:
I keep a Koni 100 behind the seat of my truck for those gee wish I had a camera moments.

Have even used it in the surf in NC with no ill effect.

Mike

How does that sucker take the big waves? I am always looking for a better boogie board.

tim in san jose

mikebarger · Nov 17, 2008

I never have it on a strap around my neck. I'm a poor enough swimmer without adding an anchor.

Mike

phthenry · Nov 17, 2008

I've found some good advice here. I've narrowed the potential camera down to about 2 models:

1. Yashica 124g
2. Koni 100

I'm also open to the Mamiya press and the Minolta Autocord, thought I havent' seen any Minoltas on ebay. Basically, these cameras have a high sync speed, can be hand held, and can be gotten very reasonably now on ebay. I am really leaning towards the Koni, given it would not be so different to use in comparison to my Minolta as far as viewing the image. Also, it seems to be the type one uses to take pictures of family and friends, and to take pictures at special events.

Chazzy · Nov 17, 2008

If you're leaning toward the Koni-Omegas, I would get one with interchangable backs, such as the Rapid Omega 200. Then you will be able (for example) to switch from black and white to color in the middle of a roll and go back again. My Koni-Omega M also will do this. I would stay away from the original model, the Koni-Omega Rapid, which takes different backs from the rest of the Koni-Omegas (they are a little harder to find).

Pupfish · Nov 17, 2008

Lest anyone take my post to suggest that you can't handhold a MF SLR, I'd like to say my Pentax 645N is actually more comfortable, better laid out and more stable than some my 35mm gear. It is quite shake free due to a very effective mirror brake and just enough mass. I've handheld it and the excellent 35mm f/3.5 SMC-A lens routinely to 1/15s, and not infrequently down to 1/8s with tack-sharp results. I actually like it much better than my Nikon F5 as a walking around camera. (Loaded with batteries both bodies weigh the same, believe it or not!) But for the aforementioned shutter lag reason, the 645N is not nearly as good for stopping peak action. This mirror lag/shutter lag issue renders moot the question of which MF SLRs, even leaf-shuttered ones to be used for hand-held action-- at least it does for me.

Considering rangefinders, have you looked at the Graflex XLs? They're probably more plentiful than others due to the US military buying them in the 60's and 70's (they were required to buy American. But Zeiss glass was used on them. Go figure!).

schwefel · Nov 17, 2008

Check out Adorama. I got my RB67 (ProS) with a 120 back, WLF and (non C) 127 lens for under $250. I looked there the other day and the looked a little cheaper. Now is a GREAT time to get into MF. I love it, I have not touched my 35mm since July. That happens to be when I got my RB.

Oh, and I have hand-held it successfully down to at least 1/15. It is not that hard with the WLF. I could never do it with a prism. With the WLF, you can let pysics be your friend and be able to get off very steady "slow" shots without a problem.

Jason

viridari · Dec 14, 2008

nsouto said:
If you want portable medium format AND flash synch at higher speeds AND interchangeable lenses AND a price around $300, there is really only one solution: the Mamiya C series. C220 or C330. Entry point price is low, you can expand lenses later as needed. And it is still reasonably portable.

This (the Mamiya C330) has replaced my DSLR (a Canon Digital Rebel XTi) as my primary camera system. I still use the Canon from time to time, but when I grab "the" camera bag, it's the one with the Mamiya in it.

Carrying a meter with this camera is a must, unless you only shoot outdoors under conditions where Sunny 16 applies (example of this camera used with Sunny 16, using HP5+ film). It has no internal meter in its standard configuration. 100% mechanical. I've used it with my strobist gear at high sync speeds, no problem.

It's a bit on the heavy side. A Rolleiflex or Yashica Mat 124G would certainly be lighter. In fact I'd very much like to get one of these lighter TLR's for my frequent long walkabouts in downtown Raleigh. It's entirely about weight, and about being hopelessly obsessive about acquiring new toys. I'd still very much prefer to continue using my Mamiya for model shoots and portraiture.

The C330 is certainly a very friendly camera to use. Double check your shutter speed because it's easy to bump by accident when adjusting aperture.

I frequently use my Mamiya with a Vivitar 285HV flash stuck to the cold shoe on the side of the camera, and a PC cord to connect it to the camera. This flash seems to be a good combination with the Mamiya, providing everything from gentle fill to illuminating a large room.

Laurent · Dec 15, 2008

viridari said:
A Rolleiflex or Yashica Mat 124G would certainly be lighter. In fact I'd very much like to get one of these lighter TLR's for my frequent long walkabouts in downtown Raleigh. It's entirely about weight, and about being hopelessly obsessive about acquiring new toys. I'd still very much prefer to continue using my Mamiya for model shoots and portraiture.

I'm about to make the reverse move : my Yashica 124 or Rolleiflex have become "the" camera (a great factor is that they sit in the living room, so it takes me 15" to grab a camera and go), but I'd like interchangeable lenses and a faster normal lens (my rollei is a 3.5 and I sometimes feel limited by this (as you said, it's also about getting new toys))

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