Getting Started in Medium Format

wfe · Aug 1, 2005

Suggest you also consider what it is that you shoot and how you like to shoot. For me moving up changed the way I shoot both positivly and negativly. I now shoot both 35mm and medium format with a Hasselblad depending on the situation.

Good luck !!!

Travis Nunn · Aug 1, 2005

wfe said:
Suggest you also consider what it is that you shoot and how you like to shoot. For me moving up changed the way I shoot both positivly and negativly. I now shoot both 35mm and medium format with a Hasselblad depending on the situation.

Good luck !!!

I agree. It seems to me that most of the suggestions made here aren't taking into consideration the subject matter. I also don't see why some are suggesting either MF or LF. It seems to me that there could be room for both. I really enjoy the fact that I can have a negative larger than 35mm using a camera that is only slightly more cumbersome than a 35mm.

MF can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. I made my jump into MF 2 years ago. I got a Mamiya 645 1000s, metered prism, 55mm lens, 80 mm lens for less than $500. All of the equipment was used (ebay) but I have had 0 problems with it and I've put quite a few rolls through it. I'm not opposed to 6x6 or 6x7, I chose 6x4.5 simply for economic reasons, but I really do like it.

Looking back, I'm really glad that I chose to go to MF. In the future, I will buy a LF, but I will use it in addition the other formats.

gcoates · Aug 1, 2005

RB67

Let me add my vote for the Mamiya RB67. It's a heavy beast, but I love mine. (Yes, I lug it on hikes.) These things are cheap too, especially in bargain condition from KEH. Mine's a bit rough cosmetically, but the images are still beautiful.

benjiboy · Aug 1, 2005

One thing to consider is with waist level finders on MF the image is laterally reversed, and takes some getting used to composing your shots ,and keeping the horizon straight, unless you buy a prism finder it's particularly difficult to follow moving subjects, having said that, the quality you will get even with fairly inexpensive MF gear will blow you away. Go to a store and test drive some, see how they feel to handle. This is probably the best time ever to buy MF , everyone and his brother are going digital and there are some real bargains out there.

Julian Ferreira · Aug 3, 2005

Buying on E-bay, or mail order etc. may be great if you know exactly what you want. But if you can, handle and play with as many styles and types you can, friends, camera clubs and decent camera stores can help with that. I use various styles of medium formats depending what and how I am shooting. Pick one that suits you not me, or any one else ! Then enjoy.

B-3 · Aug 3, 2005

I'm very leary of the auction site after a few experiences I've had there, and I agree that it is best if you handle a camera before you buy it. However, if you know what you want, I wouldn't hesitate from buying used from a reputable dealer like B&H. I've had very good experiences with them - their descriptions are accurate - and they have some (I think) good deals on used medium format cameras.

Personally, I like my TLR - though it did take some getting used to, and I'm also pleased with the results I'm getting from my 645 RF. Through experimentation I found that I don't like SLRs, but that's just me.

sanking · Aug 3, 2005

I feel certain that some people are going to jump all over me for making the suggestion, but if just want to wet your feet with medium format before jumping into the water, and you are something of a risk taker, you might consider a used Kiev 88CM on ebay. Older Kiev cameras such as the 88, 6C and 60 dont have a very good reputation, and rightly so, but the 88CM is a much better design and is quite a good camera in my opinion. I bought mine on ebay for $175, and the seller even paid shipping from Seattle. For that I got a camera in almost mint condition, two backs, a regular prism plus a TTL meter prism finder and a 80mm multi-coated lens. And even though the older Kiev cameras are not very reliable the line of lenses was outstanding, plus you can even use on the Kiev 88CM the superb Carl Zeiss Jena lenses made for the Pentacon 6.

This option is especially attractive should you need telephoto lenses because there are some really outstanding lenses available for the 88CM at very low prices, such as the 180mm and 300mm Sonnar lenses made by Carl Zeiss Jena. I personally have far less than $1k invested in my Kiev 88CM kit at this time and it includes, in addition to the camera and backs described above, the following: a 50mm Carl Zeiss Flektogon, a 65mm Mir, a 120mm Vega, a 180mm Sonnar, a 300mm Sonnar and a bellows.

OK, so now everyone can tell me how wrong I am!!

Sandy

Ole · Aug 3, 2005

Sandy, you can jump all over your Kiev 88CM all you like, and it won't harm it at all.

But get a "user", not a "mint" one: There's a reason some of them have hardly been unpacked, and that is "quality control". The non-existing one.

Does the Kiev 88CM fit the amazing Arsat 30mm? That lens alone could nbe a reason for buying one

sanking · Aug 3, 2005

Ole said:
Sandy, you can jump all over your Kiev 88CM all you like, and it won't harm it at all.

But get a "user", not a "mint" one: There's a reason some of them have hardly been unpacked, and that is "quality control". The non-existing one.

Does the Kiev 88CM fit the amazing Arsat 30mm? That lens alone could nbe a reason for buying one

Yes, the Arsat 30mm lens is made in a mount for the Kiev 88CM. It is certainly an interesting lens with an amazing field of view.

Sandy

Nick Zentena · Aug 3, 2005

I'll disagree with a few things. The Kiev 6C and 60 can be almost bullet proof. You'll find many more complaints about the various 88 type cameras. I'll also disagree that in today's market it makes sense to load up on Kiev cameras and parts. I've been buying Bronica ETR type lenses for less then similar Kiev lenses sell for. At worst I've paid similar prices.

FWIW I have 80mm,90mm,150mm[currently broken],250mm F/5.6,65mm and 45mm Kiev lenses.Plus a Kiev 60 and 6C.

I just don't think in today's market it makes sense.

sanking · Aug 3, 2005

Nick Zentena said:
I'll disagree with a few things. The Kiev 6C and 60 can be almost bullet proof. You'll find many more complaints about the various 88 type cameras. I'll also disagree that in today's market it makes sense to load up on Kiev cameras and parts. I've been buying Bronica ETR type lenses for less then similar Kiev lenses sell for. At worst I've paid similar prices.

FWIW I have 80mm,90mm,150mm[currently broken],250mm F/5.6,65mm and 45mm Kiev lenses.Plus a Kiev 60 and 6C.

I just don't think in today's market it makes sense.

I have not found the Kiev 6C and 60 to be at all bullet proof. I have a 6C with a faulty wind mechanism that makes it almost worthless, and a 60 that works fine but gives very inconsistent and uneven spacing between the negatives, sometimes overlapping. And I understand that this is very common. There were in fact a lot of problems with the old Kiev 88, but the 88CM is a newer design that has proven to be much more reliable than the old 88.

As for being able to buy Bronica ETR lenses for less or similar price to Kiev lenses I have my doubts. Just out of curiosity I looked at the currently availble and finished auctions on ebay for Kiev and Bronica ETR and it certainly does appear to me that the Kiev lenses are going for quite a bit less, though it would be necessary to look at this over a longer period to draw any really valid conclusions.

Sandy

Nick Zentena · Aug 3, 2005

I've bought most of my Bronica lenses from KEH. Ebay prices have tended to be higher. My 200mm in Excellent + condition from KEH was $150 I think. That's less then the 250mm I bought from Arax. Plus shipping from the US was much less then shipping from Europe. I did get a deal on a 105mm from Ebay but that hasn't shown up yet. Hopefully it'll turn out to be in good shape. The price was around $100 with shipping I think. I forget. Many of the really cheap Soviet lenses are coming from Europe along with hefty shipping charges. I've seen a few lenses that I wouldn't mind but the shipping cools my interest.

If you've had more problems with the 6C/60 then the 88 you've been unlucky. Frame spacing isn't that hard to adjust. Both of my two cameras are very trouble free. I still don't think that it makes sense today.

sanking · Aug 3, 2005

Nick Zentena said:
I've bought most of my Bronica lenses from KEH. Ebay prices have tended to be higher.

Interesting. Maybe I need to look at KEH prices more often. I used to buy from KEH but there reached a point where the things I wanted were going for a lot less on ebay.

But ebay is really a strange place and some things go for far more than they should. I have actually seen a few items sell for more on ebay than the price new.

Sandy

rst · Aug 3, 2005

Wow, such a long thread and not anybody mentioned the SL66.

I would go with either with 6x7 (Mamia R something) or 6x6 with a used Rollei SL66.

Well, for me I got used to the square, so I would go with the SL66. You will get bellows focusing (as the Mamia RB/RZ I think) and very good macroability (by retro mounting the lenses), together with a bit of shift (only 8 degrees up and down, but still better than nothing).

As for lenses, I would start with a Planar 2.8/80mm and (depending on what you need more) would add a light tele (Sonnar 4/150mm) or a Distagon 4/50mm. Maybe a second magazine and a Rollei tripod mount will complete the set.

ciao
-- Ruediger

Nick Zentena · Aug 3, 2005

sanking said:
But ebay is really a strange place and some things go for far more than they should. I have actually seen a few items sell for more on ebay than the price new.

Seems even wierder lately.

rst · Aug 4, 2005

rst said:
... SL66 ... a bit of shift (only 8 degrees up and down, but still better than nothing).

Ups, that is just wrong, I meant tilt, not shift. A friend showed me some 4x5 scans that day and we must have talked to much about shifting

ciao
-- Ruediger

raucousimages · Aug 4, 2005

Go for it! LF will consume you. I mean you will love LF! Come to the dark side, I mean dark slide.

Wmcgowin · Aug 4, 2005

Thank you all

Thanks everyone for the wonderful responses.

One thing I have decided is that I am moving up to medium format, and probably 6x4.5.

I am in a darkroom class right now (good way to see others' work), and the medium format negatives and prints simply don't compare to my dinky 35mm negatives.

While square negatives (6x6) are quite nice, I think I am more of a rectangular guy.

Now to figure out which camera...

Donald Qualls · Aug 4, 2005

Wmcgowin said:
While square negatives (6x6) are quite nice, I think I am more of a rectangular guy.

Now to figure out which camera...

Well, don't be a piker, then, get a 6x9! I've got a Voigtlander Rollfilmkamera that was made in 1928 that makes the second-best negatives I've seen short of large format (my Kodak Reflex II makes the best). You can buy non-rangefinder cameras in this category for under $20, and the ones made before WWII often have leather bellows that, if not completely fine, are at least repairable; even the cheaper lenses are pretty good and the Tessars and Skopars are pretty well distributed and very, very good (though flare-prone if uncoated).

If you really like 6x4.5, consider one of the half-frame Ikontas or a Daiichi Zenobia -- these little folders are comparable in size to a 35 mm with retracting lens (a little bigger than a collapsed Rollei 35, but about the same as a collapsible lens Leica), and are capable of doing justice to the 6x4.5 negative (and if it fits in a pocket, you can always have it with you).

Dr David Hall · Aug 5, 2005

New Orleans cameras

Try Lakeside Camera in New Orleans Haven't been there in a year but they did have some used equipment. Knowledgable people when I was there.

Claire Senft · Aug 6, 2005

I feel the most important question to answer is "what am I going to do with this camera"?

If you intend to exploit the maximum quality that you can get from 120 roll film and wish to have the utmost flexibility in image mamagement and do not intend to use the camera hand held then something like a Arca Swiss 2x3 view camera would be wonderful. If you wanted to use it handheld for a small portion of the work then the Horseman ER1 would be a wonderful compromise but very difficult to find. If you intend to use it mainly handheld then a Haaselblad using Copal shutters is a good chice if you need interchangeable lenses. Uf use do not need interchangeable lenses than a Rolleiflex 3.5 F with Zeiss Planar is extremely hard to beat and I have seen these cameras over the last 40 years continually increase in value.

So, do you know what you wish to use the camera for?

Digidurst · Aug 6, 2005

jjstafford said:
Now who in the world would send you two or more lenses to choose from? I do think that is asking for too much, even from KEH.

Nobody would! I PURCHASED them both and wanted to return one.

Getting Started in Medium Format

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