Getting into Medium: Questions.

I've run two rolls through my only medium format camera (the Meopta Flexaret VI Automat) with results that I like. I'm now thinking of finding a medium format camera (with working focusing) to use in addition to my growing 35mm arsenal. The reason I have a question is simple: there are SO many ways to branch out into medium format and I have no idea how to choose.

I'm thinking of starting with something simple: a folding camera like an Ikonta or an Isolette. I'd like something with a coupled or uncoupled rangefinder, but I *can* do zone focus if needbe. Then, when I'm finally ready to make the plunge...I have no clue what to start with. Rangefinders are my love and the best cameras for me when it comes to my style of photography, but I'm not sure if it would be practical.

Did you guys have problems with this?

So I have other options. TLRs are nice. I like them. I do find them somewhat hard to focus at times, though, so I may actually stay away from them. I love rangefinders, so this would be the logical progression...the main problem with that is they're damned expensive. The SLRs seem to be good 'bang for the buck' so to speak and if you get the right one, you have tons of lenses to choose from at relatively cheap prices.

So yeah...if you were me - a rangefinder user who wants to possibly start the logical progression from 35mm to medium format - what would you get as a second MF camera?

Rangefinders in MF ?
If price is less of a problem I would go for Mamiya 6 or 7 or maybe the Bronica RF645.
You should be avare of the slow lenses though, f/4.0.
Do you like the square format or do you want your pics more rectangular ?
What format will your enlarger take ?
Personally I want a Mamiya 7II with a 80mm and maybe a 43mm.
I must say that I don't know about the old folders.
Cheers Søren

I believe the enlarger I'll be getting can go up to 6x7. It comes with a 6x6 carrier, though, so I'm really wanting to stay with the square format.

Stephanie,

I made my peace with my camera buying habits... so I am hardly the person to emulate: I have too many weaknesses!
But, I have settled on getting into a RB67 system because I really enjoy working with one that a friend of mine has. However, that is probably not the camera for you. From what I have seen, older and more inexpensive TLR's have dim focusing screens and are a bitch to work with (try a Lubitel...). From what I understand and my experience with them, the more modern TLR's - or ones of better quality - are pretty easy to focus. This may just be a case of having to play around with a TLR that is a few steps above the Flexaret in quality, like a Mamiya for example. That would be the middle path price wise.
I was just lucky enough to participate in the medium format camera loaner program - so for the next little while I share my home with a Koni Omega Rapid. Something to look at - its a 6x7, but it is a RF, the RF is big and bright and snappy to use, even though the camera is big and heavy, its actually ergonomically designed, so it handles great! And, they can be had for very decent prices, have good optics and offer (I believe) three different lenses.
Hey, just brain storming some ideas - good luck with whatever you choose!

Peter.

I've seen the Koni-Omega RF's...they look really awesome. Maybe I could check one of those out.

I love my mamiya RZ system - and have built it up over about a years time...

The Mamiya 6 or 7 could be a great choice also - just a little restricted in terms of lens availability - at least here in NZ (;

I think that if I got the 6 the main lenses I'd be interested in would be the 50 and the 75...the 150 doesn't interest me much at all. Of course the 50 is going to be the most expensive of them all to get...I'd probably try getting that first.

Off cource you could go with a SLR or even a TLR.
If Opting for a 6X6 SLR I would recomend the Bronica SQA(-i) which is a great camera with really good lenses. SLR's will be heavier than RF's obviously and 6X7's even more so. In the TLR camp you have tons of options in Yashica, Minolta, Rollei, Mamiya etc.
Regards Søren

I purchased a well used Hasseblad several years ago, and enjoy it very much. I did have some problems at first with the Hasselblad lockup problem, but that has been resolved. Its a solid, mechanical camera with an industrial art look that I love. I have 80 and 150 lenses that produce great results. I enjoy working with the square format. Initially expensive, yes, but a purchase that will serve you well for years and years.

On the other hand, if you really love rangefinders, why not follow your heart?

Hi Stephanie.

You may want to take a quantum leap backwards and try a Graflex Century Graphic. It's a little difficult to get the rangefinder adjusted, and once it is adjusted, it is only adjusted for that focal length. However, you do have a ground glass back on which to focus, limited front lens movements (rise, tilt, shift), film back interchangeability, and sheet film. There is no reflex mirror banging around. Shutter release is dead quiet (in-lens leaf shutters) and makes a leica sound like a gunshot. You can experiment with different lenses without a lot of expense (lens boards are about $20). I have a 100/4.5 Kodak Special Anastigmat from a Kodak Monitor that I use that is surprisingly good. I think I paid $10 for the beat up Monitor with the good lens. Close ups are no problem, just rack out the bellows. It's also a real good way to move to large format. Once you become accustomed to the graflex, it's easy to move up to basically the same camera in 4X5. Once you try that big negative, life just isn't the same anymore....

Try the graflex website at www.graflex.org to learn more.

In medium format, I have an slr system, three tlrs, a few folders and the Century Graphic. I use the Graflex a lot, particularily when I'm not in a hurry.

Rick.

"Choose"???

I didn't choose - I got it all.

Folders are nice and compact, but limited to the lens they come with. Zone focusing is easy with a little practice.

SLR's are bigger and heavier, but have the advantage of interchangeable lenses. Mine's a Bronica ETRS with 40, 75 and 150mm lenses. All great, but hardly compact. It's my "pro" MF kit.

TLR's are even bigger, and mine is heavier too. They range all the way from the lightweight plastic Lubitel to the massive Mamiya C3 I've just bought.

And in adition to that, I have several old folding plate cameras for 6.5x9cm plates - or 120 film with a rollfilm back. I just got my camera #3 in that size, a Bergheil with 120mm Heliar

All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages, only you can choose. I can't (which I've proved repeatedly).

TLRs

Ole-I beg to differ about TLRs. While the Mamiyas are fairly heavy I have a Ricoh
TLR that weighs almost nothing and makes exceptionaly good photos. Just mate it with a modern film like Acros or HP5 and go....
Best, Peter

Peter, note that I said there is a range from the "insubstantial" plastic Lubitel to the Massive C3. I didn't say they're all heavy, just that mine is. But th C3 has interhengeable lenses too, so it may well become a system I'll expand a bit.

The Plaubel Makinas suit some of us, but a lot of people wouldn't touch them because they believe that they are unreliable and expensive. To the rest of us they are the ultimate folding medium format rangefinder cameras. The 67 and 670 (rare) have an 80 mm Nikkor and the W67 has a 55 mm Nikkor. Both are very nice lenses. They are risky purchases though.

Best,
Helen

Helen B said:

The Plaubel Makinas suit some of us, but a lot of people wouldn't touch them because they believe that they are unreliable and expensive. To the rest of us they are the ultimate folding medium format rangefinder cameras. The 67 and 670 (rare) have an 80 mm Nikkor and the W67 has a 55 mm Nikkor. Both are very nice lenses. They are risky purchases though.

Best,
Helen

Click to expand...

Yes. At least here in DK they are collectors items. A used one costs more that a new Mamiya 7II kit.
Regards Søren

Stephanie,

I've shot medium format TLRs (Yashica & Mamiya), SLRs (Hasselblad), and folders (Isolettes & an Ikonta).

A TLR is a very tempting option. Many of the lenses are Tessar clones and are therefore quite nice. If you go with Mamiya they are heavier but you get interchangeable lenses. I spec'ed it out on ebay a while ago and you could get a Mamiya kit (330, I think) with a wide, normal, and tele for like $400 all told.

I personally like my Yashica Mat 124. I got one with a very bright mirror and can focus from the waist in most situations. even if it's not that clean, you just take care of that yourself. Mine cost $25, plus $90 for a full CLA from Mark Hama. And the negatives are very nice. I have samples of both of these if you'd like (though not 100% sure where the Mamiya scans are...hm).

My friend has a Hasselblad. If you want the flexibility of backs and lenses, you got to go SLR. I am consistently blown away by the sharpness of his results, but his system is heavier, and those lenses are very pricey. I am presently saving up for a Bronica SQ-A(i) system myself. I can get a single back, WLF system with wide, normal and tele for about $800 if I work at it. All PS lenses.

The folders are actually very nice entry points into the format, but you make some compromises, as you have noticed. Most have uncoupled rangefinders (the Super Ikonta and Moskva are notable exceptions). If you get one that is in good condition, you can get excellent results. If you want to go with an RF that's a LOT cheaper than a Mamiya 6/7, Bronica or Fuji solution, then even a Super Ikonta could be an option. A Moskva certainly is (again, if you get one in good condition).

As for modern-ish RF cameras - they are all pricey. The least expensive is probably the Fuji 645 line. I had the GS645S, with the 60mm f4 lens. The lens was razor sharp, but the RF patch was pretty dim and I had trouble focusing in some cases. I would love a 690 but that's pretty expensive.

So...basically, you pick one and run with it. They all have their strengths, and they all have weaknesses.

allan

I have the same kind of question at the moment. I think I want 6x6 or 6x7, and something like this SQAi kit, in 'as new' condition looks ideal. It sold this afternoon for £448 (US$800?):

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7596361022&rd=1&sspagename=STRK:MEWA:IT&rd=1

This is a little more than my Domestic Spending Committee (i.e. my wife) will authorise, but I really like the idea of being able to have 3 backs for low, normal and high contrast and in any case the cheaper TLR kit isn't that much cheaper.

There seem to be a lot of ETRSs around for less money, but I have a question about the 6x4.5 format. I assume that using the camera normally with the waist level finder you get portrait format negatives with the long edge being the vertical. I would mostly want landscape format, but how practical is it to use with a WLF when turned on its side? Also, how much of a step up is 6x4.5 compared with the larger sizes? That's 2 questions...

Kevin

kdanks said:

...There seem to be a lot of ETRSs around for less money, but I have a question about the 6x4.5 format. I assume that using the camera normally with the waist level finder you get portrait format negatives with the long edge being the vertical. I would mostly want landscape format, but how practical is it to use with a WLF when turned on its side? Also, how much of a step up is 6x4.5 compared with the larger sizes? That's 2 questions...

Click to expand...

No, the ETRS is landscape format when holding the camera "normally". Taking portraits (portrait orientation) with the WLF is a major pain in the rear - or rather in the neck.

Any step up from 35mm is major. You won't get anything significantly better than negatives from an ETRS until you step up to LF!

A question like this will - as you have noticed- produce more answers than there are posts! I went through a similar process as you are doing about 2 months ago except I started with a Lubitel (not really an option for you unless you really want to go 'backwards') and then had a flexaret which was DOA from e-bay. I ended up with an SQ-B Bronica bevcause I liked the square format, couldn't afford a Hasselblad or Rollei system of the same age and I prefer not to have metering and a prism, I was also fortunate enough to find a dealer who had a Mamiya 645 and the Bronnie in stock so I was able to try them both out.
However you are the only person who can make the judgment IF you really like the square format I would recommend an SQ but good ETRs, Mamiya and Pentax 645s are cheaper and probably as good. TLRs are good for candid shots IMHO as you don't have to 'point at' your subject with them.
In the end you'll probably end up with one of each anyway !- next stop a 5 x 4 and before you know it you'll be lusting after some huge wood and metal LF beast with a lens the size of a football, note to self, find a way to persuade wife that this is a good investment
Cheers CJB

I would recommend the Fuji GW670 II or III (I have the II). Great lens... 90mm f3.5 and the camera handles nicely.
Drawbacks are no built in meter and the lens is non-removable... not much different than old folders.
Just my $0.02 thrown into the pot.

gene

I'm actually going to disagree with Ole just a bit here - I didn't feel 645 was that big of a jump from 35mm, but 6x6 really did. I rarely ever crop, so I generally got the full 6x6 to work with. I found that if I wanted a bigger neg, I always went 6x6 or bigger. And if I wanted a smaller camera and quicker operation, I went all the way down to 35mm. My 645 RF got lost in the process, which is a big reason why I sold it.

allan

I recently picked up a user Koni-Omega M with 90mm lens from the auction site for $119.00 US, including shipping (that was a Buy it Now price).

I've run two rolls through it so far - it may have some peculiarities, but I think it's going to work out okay, for an almost 30 year old camera (which probably had heavy use). From what I can tell, the lens is great!

The history of the cameras is confusing, and there are a lot of different (but similar) models, and parts availability may be a problem, but I think they bear study.

A Google search is interesting - here is one site that is quite useful:

Kon-Omega overview

Navigation of this site can be slightly confusing - the links on the site that are in German, with English in brackets afterwards, take you to pages that are in multiple languages, including German and English.

When I have some negatives of something other than grey cards and picket fences (to check the rangefinder) I'll try to post something in the Gallery here on APUG.

By the way, this means that I have the following functioning MF cameras:

1 Mamiya C220, 1 Mamiya C330 (4 Mamiya TLR lenses); 2 Mamiya M645 Supers, 1 Mamiya M645 Pro (5 Mamiya 645 lenses); 1 Koni-Omega M with 90mm lens.

I have had my C330 since the late 1970s. I reccommend them highly.

Careful Stephanie - once the addiction takes hold, it may never release you!

Have fun deciding

Matt

Hi Stephanie,
Yet another choice is the Graflex XL camera. Zeiss or Rodenstock lenses.
It can be used with either a side grip, right or left hand mount or a pistol grip.
Backs can be had in 6X6, 6X7 and 6X9 formats. Even a polaroid 66X film. I think it's a godawful ugly camera but ya can't beat the quality

Wow, thanks guys...I now have plenty of things to research.

That's kinda what I was going for...I wanted some good opinions. I'm going to start with a folder (most likely an Isolette III if I can find one with the shutter I want) and then move up. Any other suggestions?

Since you are asking for more, so here goes my $0.02.

Go for the Bronica SQ-A if the square format interests you. This is the only MF system I have (yet) and I love it. Mine came with a 80/2.8 Zenzanon-PS lens, a SQ-i 120 back and a metered prism finder - all for $300. You could also look at the Bronica GS-1 since this system offers a choice of three MF backs - 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7 in 120 & 220 - in addition to a Polaroid back.

Good luck with your decision!