Getting chemical equipment and lab supplies

Kirk Keyes

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It's not the gelatine that is "considered dangerous". It's the anthrax and other bacteria that are dangerous.

I'm glad those things are tested for in gelatin.
 

adam hirsch

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Sim2,


I see your point; however, I don't know if you see mine. The world is fundamentally different, today, b/c with the potential of nuclear weapons (suitcase bombs) being aquired by Al-Qaeda, yours and my world can be destroyed overnight. I agree, The US dropped the bomb twice; however, it was done TO END WWII-to avoid the guaranteed loss of 500,000 US soldiers' lives. If it comes to saving your life or the enemy's life, I'll save my life, every time. ALSO, Since we dropped the bomb to end the war, how often have we used it? How often have we threatened to use it? Think about this and be intellectually honest with yourself: if Al-Qaeda had the bomb...many bombs, do you think they would use it in self-defecse, only? Would they use it to end a war, only? If your answer is no, ask yourself, why???? It is b/c they think differently from us (the west.) They're not human. To knowingly cause innocent people to fall 100 stories to their deaths, they lack the sense of humanity that you and I have. They are different. They are evil personified. Even our new socialist President has announced that we must prevent nuclear material from getting in their hands. He and I agree on something.
Actually, we all want peace. I do, you do, every photographer on this forum wants peace. Who wouldn't. Bin Laden and Hitler. Times are different. Stakes are different. Only Hawkishness will preserve peace for the west. Dovishness is suicide. I am done with my rant (seriously,) but, I hope for all of you that you're able to aquire your supplies unfettered, moving forward. I respect your work. I aspire to do whjat you do, as I learn (I just built my first darkroom.) I just pray that our aquiescence doesn't cut short our photographic journey.


Adam
 

Tim Gray

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I think this is kind of off topic now. Can we at least talk about scanners or something?
 

markbarendt

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Photo Engineer said:
Mark;

There are not enough of us to make a difference.

PE
Click to expand...

That's simply not true.

I just went through the caucus process here in my local hole in the wall county. This is the second time I've done this, only happens every two years.

By participating and becoming a delegate last time (something I did because my daughter was excited about participating in her first election) this time I had "my" sitting US Senator and his competition making personal calls to me and asking me to call them at home to talk. Work, walking pneumonia, and a bit of ignorance of just how valuable my participation at this level is to these people kept me from better using this opportunity.

During the next cycle (now that I know a bit about how much clout delegates at this level hold) I intend to use the opportunity better.

Still, gaining a sitting Senator's ear cost me one evening with a few of my neighbors and one morning at the county rec center with other friends and this happens once every two years, I may try to go to the state level next time.

State congress people now want my attention and they return my phone calls and answer my letters and listen.

Because of my participation it's a 50/50 chance at this point that I will have a "friend" as a county commissioner should I need that connection.

Apathy and the belief that individuals are powerless works to the advantage of anyone who is willing to get involved.

Write a few letters PE.
 

Sal Santamaura

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AgX

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Photo Engineer said:
You may be surprised, but gelatin is considered dangerous.
Click to expand...

It is not a dangerous product according to EEC rules...

But I do see the issue of bacteriological contamination for food and pharmaceutical use.
 

JBrunner

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Sal Santamaura said:
No, it didn't.

No, it isn't.

We should be so lucky.

Please start a thread in the Soapbox to discuss your political opinions before this one is moved there. I'm surprised it hasn't been already.
Click to expand...

It's getting there. Lets save the politics please.
 
OP
OP

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Mark;

I have gone that route on another problem about 5 years ago. I'm still waiting for results! This is an on-topic answer.

Now, the rest of you please, back on topic! This was not meant to be a political discussion. It is a "product availability" issue for all of us.

PE
 

Ken Nadvornick

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adam hirsch said:
They're not human.
Click to expand...

Actually, they are members of the same animal kingdom species as you and I. Homo sapiens. Were you not paying attention during your high school Biology class?

Now you may not like them. Or what you surmise they stand for. Or what you feel they have done. But to claim the above is an awfully dangerous and slippery slope that is independent of those concerns. Such a claim marks an individual as one whose other opinions on the subject are at best suspect, and at worst abhorrent.

Words have meanings. And meanings have consequences. Sometimes unexpectedly to those who speak them. Tread carefully if your wish is to be listened to.

Besides, I thought this thread had to do with the increasing unavailability of laboratory equipment to the average photographic darkroom practitioner. Did I miss something?

Ken
 

cmacd123

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Hexavalent said:
I should have mentioned in my post that I was told by the supplier gelatin is very dangerous when inhaled, and can create an explosive atmosphere. I supposed a silo full of gelatin dust would have its hazards.
Click to expand...

A silo full of Flour can make an explosive atmosphere! (where I used to work they looked after Garin Silos among (many) other things..)

What I am finding is that I can no longer find a place where I can order some of the basic chemicals that make up even d-76 (although so far a us based supplier will mail me D-76 Powder.) but plain Hydroquinone - Powder is not mailable! There used to be a firm in Montreal that would ship chemicals but I understand that they have left the building.
 

Ross Chambers

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Sim2 said:
Don't rise to this, don't rise to this, don't rise to this, don't rise to this, damn....

For the defence may I call:

...The English and rightminded Christians of Europe against the armies and civilizations of Saladin;

.
Click to expand...

For which the RM Christians of Europe and a few more countries may now find themselves in the sights of another bunch of criminal fanatics.

I'm allowed one political comment after the trouble I've been through this past month in finding chemistry, the right paper to coat with it, and the bad news that Fomapan 200--which worked for all this--is on the brink.

Now, who can I blame for all that?

Regards - Ross
 

markbarendt

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PE I hate to say this but your original post is a political question at it's core, the product availability issue is just one symptom.

You brought up the FBI and DEA and suggested that we were being driven out of the wet chemistry business.

The fears that Adam has expressed are driving the politics and regulation that is taking our freedoms away.

It's not just in our ability to buy chemicals.

If we want to be able to do wet chemistry and street photography the argument we need to be making is that we are tired of giving up our freedoms.

There are a lot of people who are tired of giving up their freedoms.
 

adam hirsch

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Mark,


Just to be clear, I don't believe that my fears are irrational, or that I'm allowing my fears to blind me to our governments' eroding our freedoms. Also, think an intelligent government should realize that we, as photographers, are purchasing these supplies for legitimate reasons. They should be able to make that distinction. Obviously, they can't or won't. If we can see it, why can't they. we elect the govt. to represent us, not control us. I don't want 13,000 levels of bureocracy to control what developer/fixer we can purchase, any more than you, or anyone else on this forum. There need to be effective ways for the government to protect us from terrorism...from the real threats to our continued survival...without eroding our basic freedoms. Otherwise, the irony is that we'd be giving up our freedoms in the quest to protect our freedoms.
 

markbarendt

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adam hirsch said:
...They should be able to make that distinction. Obviously, they can't or won't. If we can see it, why can't they.... Otherwise, the irony is that we'd be giving up our freedoms in the quest to protect our freedoms.
Click to expand...

We have to tell them that and we are not doing a good job of that.

We also have to be willing to pay someone to make those distinctions, blanket regulation is cheap compared to regulation that needs to make distinctions.
 

removed account4

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Sal Santamaura said:
No, it didn't.

No, it isn't.

We should be so lucky.

Please start a thread in the Soapbox to discuss your political opinions before this one is moved there. I'm surprised it hasn't been already.
Click to expand...

thanks,
i was waiting for a reasonable response!

- i had the soapbox on ignore so i wouldn't have to read threads like this ..
 
OP
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I agree, but bringing in the extreme posts here was certainly not my intent. I wanted to share experiences getting chemicals and perhaps define areas of hard to get chemistry and methods for getting chemistry and supplies.

And, I wanted to inform fellow APUG members that the DEA and the FBI are quite serious about chemical usage and their monitoring of it. I did not want to make it a major issue.

Otherwise we will have this thread moved from "product availability" where it serves a more useful purpose IMHO.

PE
 

JBrunner

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The regulations are well worth discussing for anyone with an interest. I think we can discuss how it is without overt posturing as to why. I think it can be taken for granted that things are the way they are, and the merits or lack thereof are fodder for a different kind of discussion in a different forum.

How difficult is it to register, and where do you do it? Is there anything that is presently completely off the table?
 

BradS

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OK, this is ridiculous. Anybody who cannot find the basic chemicals necessary to make ordinary film and paper developers and fixer is simply not looking.

Right now, ebay seller "cjchemical", which I am pretty sure is a front name for Art Craft Chemicals http://www.artcraftchemicals.com has the following listing:

Metol: $30 / pound.
Hydroquinone: $16.50 / pound
silver nitrate: $82.00 / 100 gram
Ferric Ammonium Citrate (green): $31.00 / pound
and many other useful chems

ebay seller "gulfcoastliquidators" has:
Sodium sulfite - $16.99 / 10 pounds
and many other useful chems

Borax is avaialble in the grocery store laundry detergent isle.
Ascorbic acid crystals are available at better nutrition stores.


Photographer's formulary also has all of this stuff and more at reasonable prices (and, in my experience, better quality).

Do not let yourself be crippled by fear. I don't know what good comes from well respected members of the community spreading fear and mis-information. Everything you need to mix your own D76, Dektol, etc is readily available. Just look!
 

Ian Grant

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It's not these basic chemicals that are the issue, rather some of the more specialist chemicals used in emulsion manufacture and some more unusual formulae.

There ARE issues buying certain chemicals or dealing with some suppliers as a private individual in the US, UK & EU, and that's what Ron is highlighting in this thread.

Ian

 

AshenLight

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Buying chemistry for wet plate, ether and KCN for example can present challenges but they're available if you look and are willing to sign DEA or intended use forms. Try Chemsavers http://www.chemsavers.com. Nice folks and they have just about every chemical you can think of although not in the smaller quantities you may be used to from B&S or the Formulary.

Ash
 

Ian Grant

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Buying KCN is one of my pet gripes because in the Jewelery trade it's sold without any paper work etc in the UK by some specialist trade suppliers.

I once visited a jewelers workshop where they had their plating & stripping tanks (gold & silver cyanide) on a shelf above the sink where they washed their hands and made tea & coffee. They had a 25 kg tub of KCN in the cupboard.

At that time I ran a lab & we had to have stringent safety in place as we tested precious metals and gold/silver cyanide solutions and UK law meant we had to implement a full COSSH policy - taking Data from MSDS & elsewhere to draw up a working policy for safe use of all chemicals & apparatus/machinery.

Chemical suppliers are obliged by law in the UK to give you the relevant MSDS for every chemical the first time you buy it, this is also the case4 with Photo-chemistry where all the major suppliers and most of the smaller ones supply online MSDS sheets for their chemistry.

However some data isn't given properly, a small UK supplier give no MSDS data, a US supplier mentioned in this thread only give quite poor MSDS data. The information is quite critical to ensure safe use of chemistry.

Ian
 

BradS

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Yes, I realize that but people who have never tried to mix their own and who would be well served by basic formulae are reading this thread and coming to erroneous conclusions.
The point of my post, and I wish that Ron would acknowledge this point (because people listen to him) is that there is no problem (in the US) buying the basics. The sky is NOT falling!

For example, all of the constituent parts necessary to make D-76, and D-72 (Dektol) are very readily available - from multiple sources and at reasonable prices....people need to hear this and not be overwhelmed by the blanket statement that "we are being forced out of" mixing our own.

Frankly, if pure ethanol and KCn are difficult to buy...well, maybe that is not such a bad thing....
 

AshenLight

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What I find a bit frustrating is that I can get KCN with the proper paperwork but under no circumstances can I get 190 proof Everclear where I live. :confused:

Ash
 

BradS

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AshenLight said:
What I find a bit frustrating is that I can get KCN with the proper paperwork but under no circumstances can I get 190 proof Everclear where I live. :confused:

Ash
Click to expand...

Everclear has not been easy to get for many, many years. It can still be found in Mexico however...
 
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