Getting a "GLOW" with Neopan 400 at last !!!

John Bragg · Apr 17, 2007

It has been my goal for a long time to work up an alternative to Tri-X as a back up in case of availability issues. My last attempts with Neopan 400 were somewhat mixed, with contrasty prints resulting from long scale subjects. As a result I shelved my efforts with this film for at least four years. I decided to give it a whirl at Ei200, using HC-110 Dilution H and reduced agitation and VOILA!!! it works a treat !!!!!!

9 mins @ 20c.... Agitation first 30 secs continuous, then 2 very gentle inversions at the start of each minute thereafter. Shadow detail is good and the prints just seem to glow. I think I have found a new favorite ?????

http://choose-film.com/wp-profiles/104/l_Lany-reading-in-Lanzarote.jpg

Tom Duffy · Apr 17, 2007

And when Kodak finally gets out of the film business, hopefully there will be a source for HC110 .

Keith Tapscott. · Apr 17, 2007

Tom Duffy said:
And when Kodak finally gets out of the film business, hopefully there will be a source for HC110 .

Ilford Ilfotec HC and Tetenal Neopress HC are similar products.

PHOTOTONE · Apr 17, 2007

Tom Duffy said:
And when Kodak finally gets out of the film business, hopefully there will be a source for HC110 .

Kodak is already out of the chemical business. They sold their chemical factory to someone like Champion Chemicals, or someone. But...they continue to have chemistry manufactured under contract. You can still order it.

The new Freestyle catalog features a brand new line of chemistry under the Kentmere label that has equivalents for each Kodak b/w chemical, includidng HC-110.

Michael W · Apr 17, 2007

Hi John, thanks for the tip. I'd never thought of trying Neopan in HC110. Mostly I've used Xtol. Will try this alternative at some time.
I'm not sure I would count on Neopan being around when Tri-X is discontinued however. I suspect that Kodak will be making B&W long after Fuji have stopped. Mainly based on the news that Fuji have just discontinued bulk rolls of B&W film.

John Bragg · Apr 18, 2007

goldie said:
Hi John, thanks for the tip. I'd never thought of trying Neopan in HC110. Mostly I've used Xtol. Will try this alternative at some time.
I'm not sure I would count on Neopan being around when Tri-X is discontinued however. I suspect that Kodak will be making B&W long after Fuji have stopped. Mainly based on the news that Fuji have just discontinued bulk rolls of B&W film.

Hi, Goldie.
Lets hope both are with us for a very long time.. However it always pays to have a trick or two up your sleeve, and as my times and development regime seem to be identical for both films then it is a WIN WIN situation. If anything, the results with Neopan seem more like the old incarnation of TRI-X. There just seems to be a certain luminosity that suits my Leica lenses.

Regards, John.

m_liddell · Apr 18, 2007

What is 'glow'? I looked at the pic and don't see anything special?

John Bragg · Apr 18, 2007

m_liddell said:
What is 'glow'? I looked at the pic and don't see anything special?

Maybe the scan does not do it justice, but this picture was entirely backlit and the light from the doorway was strong sunlight in the Canaries.... The shadow detail retained made printing easy, and the original does seem to glow. I guess the negative suits the papers tonal range.

Regards, John.

Paddy · Apr 19, 2007

Tom Duffy said:
hopefully there will be a source for HC110 .

Just go out right now, and buy yerself a whole bunch of that syrupy 110 stuff cus' it's gonna last ferever n'ever!!

Ray Heath · Apr 19, 2007

John Bragg said:
Maybe the scan does not do it justice, but this picture was entirely backlit and the light from the doorway was strong sunlight in the Canaries.... The shadow detail retained made printing easy, and the original does seem to glow. I guess the negative suits the papers tonal range.

Regards, John.

g'day John

i have to agree with m, what glow?

in my experience there is no magic bullet/glow or special combo of camera/lens/film/dev/whatever

i think many on this site have to get over the loss of their favourite things and just get back to the bascics - any good film exposed well, processed well, printed well and presented well will have some quality

mcgrattan · Apr 19, 2007

I don't know, I have a couple of (cheap!) lenses where the images just have a particular look about them in the highlights and 'upper-mids' that I'd describe as a 'glow'. Doesn't happen all the time, obviously, but much more consistently with those lenses than with anything else even when shot in similar conditions.

These aren't super-expensive Leica or Zeiss lenses, either, so I am not succumbing to some hype.

Although I do generally agree that "any good film exposed well, processed well, printed well and presented well will have some quality".

John Bragg · Apr 19, 2007

I know that how we view prints is purely subjective, and what seems good to me might be run of the mill to others. I guess I just got a result that works in my eyes and that is what matters. I agree that any good materials can produce wonderful work in even the most modest cameras, and that exposure and development to suit the circumstances is the key. The end result as far as I am concerned, is that I have got a good workable combo that suits me.

Regards, John.

aldevo · Apr 19, 2007

John Bragg said:
It has been my goal for a long time to work up an alternative to Tri-X as a back up in case of availability issues. My last attempts with Neopan 400 were somewhat mixed, with contrasty prints resulting from long scale subjects. As a result I shelved my efforts with this film for at least four years. I decided to give it a whirl at Ei200, using HC-110 Dilution H and reduced agitation and VOILA!!! it works a treat !!!!!!

9 mins @ 20c.... Agitation first 30 secs continuous, then 2 very gentle inversions at the start of each minute thereafter. Shadow detail is good and the prints just seem to glow. I think I have found a new favorite ?????

http://choose-film.com/wp-profiles/104/l_Lany-reading-in-Lanzarote.jpg

That's a nice shot. Ultimately, I think the ability of scans to convey tonality is pretty limited since we all have our monitors at different gammas. And both scanners and monitors have limited ability to separate highlights anywhow...

There was an interesting "Sunday Monring Photographer" column by Mike Johnston several years back about how best to acheive this effect. You can find it at:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-02-04-28.shtml

In a nutshell:

- Shoot in soft but directional lighting.
- Leave the Delta, Acros, and T-max stuff at home. Use traditional emulsions instead.
- Forget about using any overly-corrected lens from the auto-focus era. There's stuff you can do with a SMC Takumar that simply won't work with a Nikkor AF
- Give at least one stop exposure over box speed and reduce development time at least 10-20% over the published time
- Print at lower contrast but don't be afraid to print down

I have found this to be extremely sound advice.

Mick Fagan · Apr 19, 2007

John, I would agree with you regarding the glow of Neopan 400. For some reason it has a snappish quality to the tonal range that I cannot describe.

I first noticed this when I did some tests thinking the strong backlighting was giving the look to the negs and subsequent prints.

Since then and about 2 years down the track, I can see a certain look that NP400 certainly has. The tonal range and glow NP400 has, really make this a different film from others I have used and am still using.

When my current bulk rolls of NP400 finish I'll be back to HP5+, I just cannot afford the luxury of pre-packed film and the premium price one has to pay. Roll your owns are much, much cheaper.

Mick.

John Bragg · Apr 20, 2007

Hi, Aldevo.

The advice from Mike Johnston is indeed sound,and I first read that article in Black and White magazine about three years or so ago. It and the writings of the late Barry Thornton (link below), can greatly ease the pain of understanding how to get good negatives with the maximum of PRINTABLE information without suffering brain strain.

Regards, John.

http://www.barrythornton.com/

John Bragg · Apr 20, 2007

Mick Fagan said:
When my current bulk rolls of NP400 finish I'll be back to HP5+, I just cannot afford the luxury of pre-packed film and the premium price one has to pay. Roll your owns are much, much cheaper.

Mick.

Hi, Mick

It is indeed a shame that Fuji are discontinuing bulk rolls. I used to roll my own E6 many years ago and the savings can add up. I am fortunate to have a cheap supply of film from Guernsey based 7dayshop.com.... so at £2.05 a roll it is less than half the mainland price, and tax free to boot. Tri-X is a similar price so it is no longer as attractive to hand roll.

Regards, John.

Black Dog · Apr 23, 2007

Have a look in the bargain bins-I managed to find several bulk rolls of Neopan 400 at Focal Point in Exeter which'll last me for a good while as I don't do much 35mm these days. BTW it responds well to PCAT HD, PMK and Barry Thornton's 2B formula.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 23, 2007

Re: Neopan 400 with 'glow'

I don't know if this is the quality you're looking for, but I thought I'd share my experience anyway.

I got impressed with Fuji a long time ago when I first tried their Neopan 100 Acros. I used a few rolls, but came into some FP4 cheap, and although different is equally beautiful. I developed all my Acros in Rodinal 1+100.

Next one to impress me was when I tried some Neopan 1600 for indoor use, available light, developed in Ilford DD-X. Nice tonality, albeit slightly difficult to print due to the clear film base.

It wasn't until the past weekend that I have tried the Neopan 400, and boy do I regret not doing so sooner. I've attached a scan of a 7x10" print that I made from Medium Format Neopan 400, shot at EI400 and developed in Pyrocat-HD, 70*F, 1+1+150, stand development (initial agitation full minute, then stand) for 60 minutes. I love the results. If you want less contrast, just change the dilution of the developer. I got some uneven base stain but printed right through it on VC paper with filters.

- Thomas

Getting a "GLOW" with Neopan 400 at last !!!

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